Posted on 07/01/2008 10:40:58 AM PDT by wintertime
We must be willing to redefine education. What education looks like now is an artificial construct. It was not created by people who knew or understood children or teens. It was created by bureaucrats and special interests who wanted to control children and teens.
I talked with a young lady the other day – 14-years-old – who loves horses and aims to own stables and teach riding, among other things. She’s been working with horses since she was five. She’s good enough now that she “breaks” new ones and retrains ones facing changes in the use they’re being put to. She knows her stuff.
(snip)
Then there’s her other life – public school. She failed her end-of-year math exam by three points, so she’s going to summer school. She’ll have to pass the test to move on to the next grade. I’ve talked with her. She’s smart and highly competent – just not especially interested in algebra. She’s more accomplished than many adults (even ones who did pass algebra). But she has four more years of school to go, during which time she’ll have to pass endless tests and divert her efforts from what she knows she’ll devote her life to.
(snip) I get many calls a month from parents of teens who simply haven’t managed to fit into the school mold. They’re smart kids, often kids with serious interests they’re prevented from pursuing because so many adults in their lives are running them through the testing/counseling/therapy wringer.
(snip)
In order to redefine education, we will have to engage in some self-liberation, for most of us have a very hard time letting go (I mean really letting go) of the idea that the state knows some secret about education that we don’t and that if we defy their model we just might be sorry.
(snip)
I’m all for home schooling and admire those who do. Well, those that do it well. Meaning those that do it because it’s their choice and it works well for them for whatever reason.
In our public school system, there isn’t a condescending attitude about African Americans -— where did THAT term come from anyway?...not all blacks are from Africa. Those from Jamaica make that clear. In this area, and most cities, being *African-American* gives one a distinct advantage...it’s all about the color of one’s skin rather than the content of one’s character. Or ability.
I’m way past that white guilt crap. I’m sure there are areas and people that still discriminate for whatever reason. Whatever. My grandparents came to America from Italy and Ireland. I have no interest or background in what *African-Americans* deal with nor do I care. My ancestors had their own crap to deal with yet they survived and thrived and didn’t whine about it.
If you’re homeschooling because of the condescending attitude toward “AFrican Americans” then you don’t live in the NE. Or in NJ. Come live here. Not only won’t you get a condescending attitude, you’ll get special treatment and all that.
Maybe the attitude possibly expressed in the quote you italicized has more to do with what is going on in the black community, especially our inner cities, and less to do with some perceived bias. The black community is suffering but not because of racism or discrimination by whitey. They’re suffering because LBJ’s Great Society allowed for the laziness and entitlement mindset that is prevalent today. And the community sucked it up and is playing it for everything’s it’s worth. It’s so much easier than actually working and succeeding. What other community gets what the black community gets? Call me a racist, I don’t give a f. I’m tired of all the whining by so called minorities, be them black or hispanic or women.
Suck it up and get the hell over it like the rest of us have to.
I don’t doubt that homescoolers aren’t wealthy. I live in a really affluent area. It’s just assumed that we’re all rich when we aren’t. Yeah, I’m probably more wealthy than most but we worked our asses off for it, it wasn’t given to us. And we’re far from wealthy.
I can’t imagine home schooling for some. Partly because, so many, especially those in the inner cities or other areas of distress, can barely function let alone teach their kids anything of value.
As for the other italicized quote, it may not take a lot of money but in a way it takes some money. One has to be able to support oneself and the family. I don’t know about anyone else, but I have to work at least part time, and we’re affluent according to some, rme.
Homeschooling works for some and could work for more. It doesn’t work for everyone. And there are those we wouldn’t want homeschooling their kids.
I do agree with the rights of parents. In everything, even about education for their children.
I do think she’s lying about the cops but maybe I have a bias because I come from a family of cops and I know none have ever taken children at gunpoint for not going to school. Then again, not going to school is minor in this region. The cops are too busy dodging bullets and trying to do their job.
Even in this affluent town, truancy is not high on the list. And by truancy, I mean those registered for schoolthat don’t attend. Those who homeschool are left alone. LE has bigger things to worry about.
thanks for the links. I’ll check them out.
I really can’t imagine homeschooling parents arrested for schooling their kids. That would be such a non offense here unless the kids were running rampant and committing crimes.
Then you need to speak directly to your average run of the mill technology teacher (Other wise known as one of the smartest people you will ever meet).
You want to teach Algebra, Geometry and Trig, and the student is interested in construction. Give them a housing problem. How much lumber will be required to construct a house that is X number of cubic feet. How much concrete is required to pour a slab foundation, how much more would you need for a basement?
The student is interested in Culinary, You need to seat 75 guests in a room that is 30 x60, can you seat more people using square, rectangular, or round tables?
The student is interested in Automotive. Have them design a windshield wiper. seriously look at one of those closely just to see how much geometry is involved in that.
One of the reasons we homeschool is the condescending attitude toward African Americans in the school system. (Note: I'm not saying every teacher and administrator has it, but statements like the one above reflect the general attitude.) Outside the school system, my children have not been taught to see themselves as victims. Two are still very young, but the eldest at 12 has learned a self-reliance that will carry him through life. He is largely self-taught, and he always has excelled in his studies. An increasing number of black families are opting for home education, and their children are doing well.
These comments were directed to wintertime, she has failed to respond everytime I have asked her about them. I have cited this source to her and she has failed to respond.
http://www.catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?recnum=1446 Childbearing out-of-wedlock and absence of fathers varies greatly between racial/ethnic groups.The highest rate was non-Hispanic Blacks, among whom 69.4 percent of births were out-of-wedlock. American Indians have the second highest rate at 58.7 percent, followed by Hispanics at 40.92 percent. Among non-Hispanic whites, 21.54 percent of births are out of wedlock, and Asians/Pacific islanders have the 1owest rate with 15.64 percent of births being out-of-wedlock.
This jibes with my own anecdotal evidence. I did my student teaching and taught at an inner city school for two years.
It is fortunate that you are wealthy enough to be able to afford, but not everyone has that luxury
It's a myth that we're all wealthy. I do know single parent families homeschooling, and most of the homeschool families I've met struggle financially. Some are very poor; some have lost everything in tragedies; some are seriously ill. But homeschooling works for them. It's not terribly expensive, unless you make it so.
Wintertime has run off at the mouth a number of times about how "wealthy" her family is, including several recent posts about how she and her husband are kicking in for the education of their grand kids.
Personally I think this qualifiers her as an enabler, like you said it can be done cheaply.
On the one hand, money always seems to capture the attention of students.
On the other hand, my science students always seem to really enjoy learning about the periodic table of the elements, which is probably what most of them will use least of anything I teach them...go figure.
So any parent who truly cared about their kids would send them to you? That's the height of arrogance. You're just as bad as wintertime with calling parents who choose something else, child abusers.
I don't care what your credentials are. When I have kids I'll do whatever is in my power to keep them out of the hands of the system you serve. If that involves moving in with my mother in law, working nights clearing tables, whatever. Not only do I consider it my religious duty, but I also believe I can provide them a better, more rounded education without any of the downsides that government schooling has. Teachers like you, who used to tell my mother she was ruining our lives by homeschooling, are why to this day I don't trust most teachers I know.
By the way, my Master's gpa wasn't much lower and I studied an engineering subject rather than education. You have a visceral emotional reaction to the subject of homeschooling because homeschoolers are doing your job for free and doing it just as well.
Not to be snotty here, but unless they had a gun held directly to their head/ or were shot then it has nothing to do with what I called wintertime on.
In case you have not noticed Wintertime like to engage in hyperbole on a regular basis.
Then when I call her on the facts and ask her to document she refuses.
It is a pity because her extremist views give a bad name to others that are both religious and conservative.
Tired of taxes, you might consider having a private conversation with her, She does not seem interested in listening to this USDA approved Male
Amen Sister/ Brother testify.
You need to get over your self.
I am D@mn good at what I do, and I do it for half of what I could make in industry.
I do it because I believe that that the education of our youth is one of the top three priorities of our society (Notice I didn't say government I said society)
So any parent who truly cared about their kids would send them to you?
It is a pity that you did not recognize the allusion to the old Hallmark commercial, as a comeback to wintertime's rants about Public School professionals being useful tools and idiots. Have you called her on her comments?
Get over yourself.
Or as she puts it, they need to be "institutionalized". Makes it sound as if they are criminal or insane, don't you think?
But the vast majority of parents are not crack-addicted abusers.
I know that, but a lot of the parents of my children are unable for one reason or another to homeschool. Most of them want good things for their children, but some are substance abusers (not necessarily crack), some are spending every ounce of effort they have to put bread on the table, some don't make very good choices for their own lives and those of their children, and some are deployed to Iraq. Most of my students don't live in stable two parent families.
I don't think FReepers are representative of the majority of parents, more's the pity.
My top students are usually African-American, and my lowest students, generally mixed between black and white...
But the breakdown of the black family (and increasingly for other ethnic groups as well) is a serious issue, both for society and for education. I don't think schools can "fix" it...I'd like to see a higher profile for Bill Cosby, Juan Williams, and other leaders who are addressing this problem, and a lower profile for those like Sharpton and Jackson who I feel are exascerbating it, but I don't control that...
Sorry, I don’t watch tv and I certainly don’t memorize old commercials so your attempt at humor fell flat.
I have called wintertime on her comments again and again. However, she’s right about the power of the government. Every homeschooler knows if they don’t comply with local requirements, their children will be forced to attend government schools. If they refuse, they could be arrested or have their kids removed. The government has, at its base, the threat of armed force to compel citizens.
No police officer carries an unloaded gun. And yes, if children are removed from their parents, it involves armed officers. Just because the guns aren’t usually pointed at heads doesn’t make the promise of violence not there. Basic gun training says you don’t point a gun at someone you aren’t willing to shoot, and most of the time those situations do not escalate to shooting level.
It would if CPS tried to take my kids.
I’m glad you’re proud of your work. I’m proud of mine too. I make a lot of money and I’m going to give all that up to educate my kids so don’t tell me you’re making half what you can in industry. I’ve heard that line a lot too, usually just before the local schools increase my property taxes yet again and then explain why the graduation rate is so bad.
Twink,
I am very supportive of police and fireman. Hey! How about the example of 9/11? What brave and good men!
Have you heard the expression: “There oughta’ be a law!”
When people say this what they want is government to force others to do something. There is **only** one way that government can **make** a citizen do something that he really would rather not do. That is by threat of armed police and court action, fines, and imprisonment. The threat is most often enough even if the police and courts never need to act.
Tired of Taxes used the example of taxes.
I have never met anyone who has actually had police with drawn weapons come to their door to collect taxes...But...We all know that if someone fails to pay their property tax, the home or business will be sold a sheriff's auction. We all know that if a person were to foolishly resist, police weapons would be drawn. If the citizen were sufficiently resistant, the police would use them. In my little town having police draw their weapons over a tax issue has likely never happened,...but...All of know that in the right circumstances our town sheriff would do that.
Therefore...Laws that compel students to attend government school are backed by the threat of police, court, and foster care action. Yes, it is **extremely** rare that police would draw their weapons. Why? Answer: Citizens are not so stupid that they would risk being defiant of the law and the police that enforce the law.
If you were to do a Google search on the words, “Truant and Police”, you will see that there are many ( thousands?) of news reports about police ( who are armed) enforcing truancy laws.
Oh, I know that government school teachers, principals, and superintendents would like to be seen in warm an fuzzy terms...but,,,The **truth** is that there is the threat of police action standing behind every one of them.
As one of the early homeschoolers, our family was visited twice by truant officers, and once by a child protection worker. Please believe me. I took these visits **very** seriously, and treated these people **very** respectfully, because I knew that the next step was a visit from an armed sheriff.
If homeschoolers now have a legally supportive environment, it is due to the brave efforts and very expensive legal work of the early homeschoolers in resisting their government school districts. Some early homeschoolers lost custody of their children. Some were arrested. I know of one man in Utah who was killed by police for resisting arrest.
Yes, and some of us, particularly those of us with math, science, and technology degrees, could be making just as much or more than you do. I bet you're making a lot more than a teacher does (which is not criticism, just a fact.)
The difference is, we've given that up to educate other people's children, because we feel that the future of our society depends on the education its children receive today.
The system needs a lot of help, and no one teacher is going to fix it...but those of us who are conservative teachers like to feel we're doing our small part to make things a little bit better instead of just sitting on the sidelines complaining about how bad things are.
Not everyone can teach, and not everyone can homeschool. But I don't think that those of us who choose to teach deserve as much derision as we receive from some here -- in fact, it looks like we'd get a little bit of support for doing our small parts to turn back the tide of liberalism in the public schools.
If you choose to homeschool, good for you. No one is complaining. But please don't tar all public schools, and all public school students, teachers, and systems, with the same brush.
The law of supply and demand sets my salary, and teachers’ salaries. At least mine is paid for by the people who directly want my services. I’m not demanding my neighbors pay my salary. Every time teachers complain about their salary, I grit my teeth because that means they want to take more of mine. Obviously they are not providing a service that enough people want if the only way they get paid is by taxes.
“Free” education is a disaster. The students place no worth on it. Which gets a bigger reaction from parents? Suggesting a schedule change to the school year that interferes with their work schedules, or releasing abysmal test data? I’ve seen bigger protests over school delays than the fact that kids can’t read. That should tell you what the American public thinks of their schools - they’re babysitting facilities.
My criticism is not of any particular individual teachers, but a system that is so rotten, so corrupt, that the longer we delay, the more painful the remedy will be. Unfortunately, many people think it is not as bad as I think it is. So they will delay and delay, prop up an old system, until it becomes obvious even to them... and then what? All the people they needed to help them fix it are leaving, have left. We’re on the second generation of homeschoolers now. Many stay at home moms who might have been the linchpin of a school’s rehabilitation have given up and are learning to educate their own children.
They can take my tax dollars, by the threat of violence. But when they come whining that my kids can read and theirs can’t and it’s not fair, tough. It’s too late to take the easy way out. Children’s minds and souls are too valuable to gamble on a broken system.
The main heritage robbed from them: a quiet confident self-reliance.
That internalization must be achieved before a kid can learn -- otherwise they are like a cup full of holes. No matter what is poured in, it will be lost.
These children will need to be institutionalized for their education.
Also...The waiting lists for charters are proof enough that parents are desperate for choice.
We should begin the process of privatizing universal K_! education so that these parents can **choose** a private school for their children and not be **forced** by the government to use only the government monopoly schools.
I am not a communist nor do I support their ideals. This is an insult and it is libel
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