Posted on 06/24/2008 1:01:52 AM PDT by machogirl
Vest, shirt, badge - check.
Pants, boots, gun belt - check.
About 800 Phoenix police officers and up to 400 Mesa officers believe changing into and out of their uniforms each day is doing work, so they've sued in federal court to be paid for their time.
U.S. District Judge Neil V. Wake ruled in April that the Mesa Police Association shouldn't receive any money, according to court records, but the union has recently appealed the ruling to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.
The lawsuit has cost Mesa more than $187,600 to fight so far, according to public records. And that bill could rise as the case continues.
The Phoenix Law Enforcement Association is still in the middle of its lawsuit, which was filed in May 2006.
Dale Norris, executive director of the Arizona Police Association and an attorney in both suits, said it takes officers an average of about 20 to 30 minutes each day to dress and undress.
"Police officers don't wear uniforms for their own benefit and this isn't like other clothing," Norris said. "I was a police officer for 22 years. Then I went to law school. ... When I put on my suit and tie and leave my house, I'm still Dale Norris, but when I was the police officer and I put on the uniform, you literally become someone else."
Norris added that wearing the uniform is "clearly for the employer's benefit" and that when people work for an employer, they should be paid for it.
But Mesa's other union, the Fraternal Order of Police, disagrees with Norris' stance and says that the lawsuits are wrong.
"We think this is gonna look pretty bad in the public's eye," said Bryan Soller, president of the union. "We think it looks like we want to get paid to put our pants on."
Soller said the uniform is no different from a regular person's work attire, with the exception of the badge and gun belt. He said Mesa police aren't even required to put on their bulletproof vests, but are only mandated to have them in their possession.
"They're gonna say that there's 37 things to put on to go to work, but (officers) don't take their gun belt apart," Soller said. "They only take the gun off."
Soller said he estimates the time it takes to dress and undress is closer to 10 to 20 minutes.
The argument involving police officers donning and doffing the uniform has been ongoing for at least the past 18 months, since the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2006 that employees at a meat packing plant should be compensated for putting on and taking off their safety equipment and uniforms.
Federal judges have been inconsistent in rulings involving agencies nationwide, Norris said. And it's likely that the Mesa Police Association's case will be the first to make it to the 9th Circuit.
"Some judges you have, completely sided with the officers' position and some judges you have, completely disagreed and ruled in favor of the employers," Norris said. "And you've seen some judges who have essentially split the baby."
Norris said he believes there won't be any consistency until the 9th Circuit decides on the issue.
Nationwide, some agencies are paying officers. The Honolulu Police Department pays officers, Norris said. And the California Highway Patrol and Portland Police Department are among others that offer some sort of compensation.
Soller said he agrees with the pay for certain federal agencies that must check equipment in and out each day, but not for police officers who can bring their equipment home and change.
Mesa officers can change at home or at a locker at work, depending on their preference. However, they must be dressed in their uniform to report to briefing.
"I'm trying to think of what the average citizen is gonna think of this," Soller said. "I just think this is gonna look greedy."
Seems to me they should do what the market dictates. if they wanna keep employees happy they will pay them. If they don’t then they can pay what it takes to keep em.
These cops could always go someplace else.
In private business, that may be fine. I don't consider public service, paid with public tax dollars, to be a "market." Holding taxpayers hostage--which is really what's happening here--is not acceptable. The cops can still leave, but if they stay, maybe they should start looking at wearing the uniform as a privilege, and not a burden for which they should be paid.
Unless the cops are conscripts or slaves it is a free market. They are free to work for whomever they want and can hired by.
The city should pay whatever it takes to keep the talent they need. The city is just another employer.
I agree the cops are in the wrong here. I’ve read other stories about this and they were complaining about how long it took to get dressed. I don’t remember the exact about but they were saying it took about 45 mins to get dressed.
lets see, pants, shoes, shirt, vest, best, hat, oh and donuts. Yeah I can see where that would take 45 mins each way. 5 mins for the clothes and 40 mins for donuts and coffee.
The Founders would be proud.
I agree that municipalities should pay for talent, but didn't these police know when they were hired in the first place, they'd be required to wear uniforms?
Regardless of that, or even if they should rightfully be paid for their "dress time," I'm tired of seeing supposed "public servants" nickel and diming the taxpayer. This is the same mentality that in my city, pays for the use (including gasoline) of the squad cars when police are off-duty; it's also the same mentality that feeds into questionable overtime practices to attain higher "averaged" incomes, which are used in retirement calculations. It's fleecing of the taxpayer, pure and simple.
The Founders actually wrote this in really fine print in invisible ink on the back of the original Constitution.
Ben Gates has only just now proved its existence...
I like the way you think.
i missed this one also, can’t believe it, i could understand if it took an hour to put on required apparatus
but a uniform, does this open all businesses that require uniforms to a suit?
i’ll shower, dress, and put on makeup/do nails if i get paid (sarcasm)
“We are also required to report for work rested and alert. So we should get paid 8 hours sleep time.”
All it would take to settle this suit would be for Squantos to show up in his birthday suit
Lawsuit + Birthday Suit = Failed Law Suit!
And a certain amount of yuckiness...........
Aren’t you the one who pierced yer nipple so the badge wouldn’t fall off ?..............:o)
And remember sit rep has video of you and your nightstick !
Games aside the gear a cop wears is based on required PPE aka Personal Protective Equipment as in the ballistic vest etc etc ...... Supreme Court ruled a couple of years ago that hourly employees will be paid to dress out and remove gear that included but was not limited too a company uniform that included PPE.
These guys should get 15 minutes before and after their shift too properly don / doff PPE their SOP / Risk management requires................IF THAT GEAR AND THE UNIFORMS ARE KEPT AT THE DEPARTMENT !
If it is issued, and maintained and stored at the LEO’s dwellings then NO they DO NOT get PPE time !
Well, I sure didn't think that one through!
Ya have too admit it’s prominent when it’s chilly out !
So, I would show up to work in shorts and a t-shirt.
(grin)...
Agree with you on the matter... Punch in, change, go to work. Happens like that everywhere else in the working sector. If the bean counters got a problem with it, tell the LEOs they have to write one more ticket on the daily quotas. A win - win if you will...
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