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Utah birth records sought in probe of FLDS couples' ages
Salt Lake Tribune ^
| June 19, 2008
| Brooke Adams
Posted on 06/19/2008 9:06:57 AM PDT by greyfoxx39
Utah birth records sought in probe of FLDS couples' ages
Utah birth certificates may be playing a significant role in an investigation into possible sexual abuse at a polygamous sect's Texas ranch, The Salt Lake Tribune has learned.
An Arizona investigator requested copies of birth certificates for approximately 25 FLDS couples from the YFZ Ranch - about 50 people in all - to confirm their dates of birth, according to Jeff Duncan, director of the Utah Office of Vital Records and Statistics.
Gary Engels, a special investigator for Mohave County, Ariz., made the request for information first to the Utah Attorney General's Office, which referred him to the vital statistics office.
"I never heard anything directly from the state of Texas," Duncan said.
Engels has spearheaded the investigation of polygamy-related cases from Colorado City, Ariz. The town and adjacent Hildale, Utah, are the traditional home base of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
Engels provided a spreadsheet with names of men and women and their ages, apparently based on bishop's records and other evidence seized from the YFZ Ranch in Eldorado, Texas.
Texas authorities raided the ranch, an outpost of the sect, on April 3 after receiving a call for help that later proved to be hoax.
Texas Child Protective Services removed some 450 children whom they alleged were in danger of sexual, physical and emotional abuse. The children were returned to their parents two months later after the Texas Supreme Court ruled there was insufficient evidence to show all the children were at risk.
But the child welfare case involving the children remains open and, using DNA tests and other evidence, CPS is investigating whether specific children have been abused.
The Texas Attorney General's Office also is leading a separate criminal investigation that may be focused, at least in part, on illegal marriages between older men and underage girls.
The ages of men may be relevant because Texas law bars sexual relationships between teens who are younger than 17 and men who are more than three years older. Teens can legally consent to sex at age 17 in Texas, although they can legally marry with a parent's permission at 16.
Tela Mange, a spokeswoman for the Texas Department of Public Safety, said the agency is "working with a number of investigators," but did not elaborate.
"Our investigation encompasses a wide range of information and I am unable to provide specifics on the types of information we are gathering," she said in an e-mail.
Jerry Strickland, a spokesman for the Texas Attorney General's office, declined to comment on the ongoing investigation.
Paul Murphy, spokesman for the Utah AG's Office, would not comment specifically on the Texas investigation but said that, "We have, from time to time, educated researchers, lawyers, law enforcement staff and citizens on the proper office that may respond to a request for a birth certificate." Duncan said the search of Utah records did yield some information.
During custody hearings in April, a Texas judge refused to accept birth certificates offered by FLDS women as proof of their age or their status as a parent. Duncan said Texas officials never contacted his office about the authenticity of the documents.
However, FLDS members contacted Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. for help, including verifying information on the documents. Huntsman's office, in turn, asked Duncan's office whether it was possible to authenticate birth certificates.
"I told them I could verify facts and the paper it is on, but I never heard back from them," Duncan said.
As the Texas investigation unfolded, Duncan said the Vital Statistics office in St. George received several requests to issue delayed birth certificates for children born more than a year ago.
The requests, forwarded to Salt Lake City, were refused because information provided to document the births and the child's parents was insufficient, he said.
"If we refuse to file a delayed birth certificate, they have to go to court and get a judge to issue [it]," Duncan said.
Arizona authorities have successfully used birth certificates of women and their offspring to prosecute FLDS men for sexual conduct with minors. The documents have been used to prove a woman was a minor at the time she gave birth to a child.
In Arizona, it is a crime for anyone under the age of 18 to engage in sexual activity.
Duncan said the Utah Attorney General's Office also has gathered information from birth certificates in the past as part of investigations into polygamous groups.
TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: flds; mormon; polygamy
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Fat lady hasn't even warmed up yet.
To: Politicalmom; UCANSEE2; colorcountry; Pan_Yans Wife; MHGinTN; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; ...
2
posted on
06/19/2008 9:08:24 AM PDT
by
greyfoxx39
(Tagline on vacation during the grand experiment.)
Comment #3 Removed by Moderator
To: greyfoxx39
I think I just heard her clear her throat though. ;o)
4
posted on
06/19/2008 9:14:10 AM PDT
by
rightazrain
(:No people . . .have ever survived . . . by (being) inoffensive to their enemies." Dean Acheson)
To: rightazrain
Birth Certificates? Like Obama’s?
5
posted on
06/19/2008 9:14:58 AM PDT
by
massgopguy
(I owe everything to George Bailey)
To: massgopguy
What the heck is going on with this “delayed birth certificate” stuff? I’d never heard of it.
Normal people have babies and get a birth certificate immediately afterwards.
Not having one makes me very nervous about the babies. No record of birth/no record of death. No accountability for schooling, etc. How very convenient that some children are doomed to the status of non-persons when you want to own their bodies/souls.
6
posted on
06/19/2008 9:19:14 AM PDT
by
rightazrain
(:No people . . .have ever survived . . . by (being) inoffensive to their enemies." Dean Acheson)
To: rightazrain
What the heck is going on with this delayed birth certificate stuff? Id never heard of it. You must not be very old. I was born in 1939 and did not have a birth certificate. I was born at home and it was never recorded in state or county files.
When I turned 62 and started asking about Social Security, they had me apply with the state for a delayed birth certificate.
There is a process to document that you were here over 60 years ago, and through school records and so forth they can document how old you are.
I had my birth recorded when I was over 60 years old.
Before that I told everyone that I wasn't born, I was hatched.
7
posted on
06/19/2008 9:35:29 AM PDT
by
Dan(9698)
To: Dan(9698)
How did it feel after all those years to finally have accoutability for your schooling and get your body/soul back.
To: greyfoxx39
Just part of the ongoing investigation. Glad to see they’re still looking into this evil FLDS cult. At the very least, I hope they get shut down. I’d prefer to see most, if not all, of the adults in jail.
9
posted on
06/19/2008 10:15:27 AM PDT
by
MEGoody
(Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall cause you to vote against the Democrats.)
To: Dan(9698)
To clarify, I’ve not heard of it since modern records have been kept by the states. In other words, aren’t children born nowadays supposed to have their births recorded as a matter of law?
My mom had to prove her birth via old church/bible entry records.
10
posted on
06/19/2008 10:43:04 AM PDT
by
rightazrain
(:No people . . .have ever survived . . . by (being) inoffensive to their enemies." Dean Acheson)
To: On the Road to Serfdom
It felt just fine to not be in the records of the state.
I don’t let my kids see my report cards, because they would say, “Why are you on my case about grades?”
To: rightazrain
...arent children born nowadays supposed to have their births recorded as a matter of law? I would bet that is not the only law that is ignored by a lot of folks.
To: greyfoxx39
Just to get a copy now days is difficult. I can't imagine the paperwork involved in claiming an original.
To: greyfoxx39
However, FLDS members contacted Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. for help, including verifying information on the documents. Huntsman’s office, in turn, asked Duncan’s office whether it was possible to authenticate birth certificates.
“I told them I could verify facts and the paper it is on, but I never heard back from them,” Duncan said.
As the Texas investigation unfolded, Duncan said the Vital Statistics office in St. George received several requests to issue delayed birth certificates for children born more than a year ago.
The requests, forwarded to Salt Lake City, were refused because information provided to document the births and the child’s parents was insufficient, he said.
_____________________________________________
Weeeeeeeeeeelllllllllll
Wouldya look at that there....
LOL
To: CindyDawg
“Just to get a copy now days is difficult. I can’t imagine the paperwork involved in claiming an original.”
Actually I have found it very easy due to the Internet.
In the last two year I have had to obtain numerous birth certificates, marriage certificates, and death certificates from several different states.
I used this company to do them all...
http://www.vitalchek.com
Never had a problem.
15
posted on
06/19/2008 1:05:57 PM PDT
by
chaosagent
(Remember, no matter how you slice it, forbidden fruit still tastes the sweetest!)
To: rightazrain
When I had babies the hospital would bug me for the name the same day for their records..
Why wouldnt someone get a birth certificate right away...
You need one to get a SSN in order to get bennies etc..
At the least...what about the hospital records ???
Home birth, says ye ???
Wonder why, says I..
Something to hide, methinks
To: Tennessee Nana
Yeah, as I wondered about in post #6.
I keep thinking of that FLDS child graveyard with no names In Hillsdale or Colorado City, don’t remember which.
17
posted on
06/19/2008 1:22:03 PM PDT
by
rightazrain
(:No people . . .have ever survived . . . by (being) inoffensive to their enemies." Dean Acheson)
To: rightazrain
Babyland ???
Yes I think there is an investigation going on there too..
To: Tennessee Nana; rightazrain
According to the CDC, all States require the reporting of a live birth regardless of length of gestation or weight. (It doesn’t matter who witnesses the birth, either, though I’m certain each state’s medical/nurse practice acts delineate what is required of health care professionals, with the loss of licensure a potential consequence for noncompliance.) Every state has requirements (which differ from state to state) regarding the reporting of fetal deaths.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/itop97.pdf
But of course, this is all just one more example of BIG BROTHER at work, right?? < /sarc
19
posted on
06/19/2008 8:23:42 PM PDT
by
Flo Nightengale
(Keep sweet? I'll show you sweet.....)
To: Dan(9698)
I was born at home, too, in Missouri.
The witch hunt continues . . .
20
posted on
06/19/2008 9:22:15 PM PDT
by
Saundra Duffy
(For victory & freedom!!!)
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