Report Finds Little Gain From Vouchers

The Washington Post ^ | June 17, 2008 | Maria Glod and Bill Turque

[Amelia]

Students in the D.C. school voucher program, the first federal initiative to spend taxpayer dollars on private school tuition, generally did no better on reading and math tests after two years than public school peers, a U.S. Education Department report said yesterday.

The findings mirror those in previous studies of the D.C. Opportunity Scholarship Program...

[Amelia]

There's crap in every district, but your story is astounding. For starters, how does the principal have time to review each teacher's lessons and copier usage, and again, how can it possibly be cheaper to copy everything than to buy books? (I guess it is because the teachers have to buy the paper?)

[grellis]

The copied lessons are handed in each Friday morning. I assume, each Friday, that the principal (a real piece of work) prints a copier report detailing usage. For all I know, the principal does that daily. I do know that it gets done.

I helped out in my fifth-grader's classroom beginning last fall. The school my kids attended 2006-07 had been closed by the district, and they (along with my fifth grader's teacher) were reassigned to this new elementary. One of my weekly jobs was handling the homework runoff. The first three weeks, I used the teacher's code on the copier but didn't realize I was supposed to hand a copy of the homework packet in to the principal. After those first few weeks, I ended up in a meeting with the teacher, the principal, and some total thug from the district administation. The teacher and I had to sit there and explain that, through our being new at the school, we were still learning the ins and outs of how the admin expected things to get done. The next day, I brought three weeks worth of my son's homework in for the principal to keep as her own, as a record that the copier had been used for educational purposes. Insane.

The teacher is a wonderful woman, a real throwback educator, but the challenges she faced were horrible. It wasn't just a fifth grade, it was a 4/5 split. An additional wrinkle: In this school district, all incoming K-5 students who do not speak English as a first language MUST attend this particular elementary and test proficient for their age before they can be transferred to their geographically assigned school. (It is known as the English Language Learning designate, or ELL.) Seventeen languages, in addition to English and the urban variant of English, were spoken at the school. In my son's 4/5 split, there were 29 students total; two of them spoke Swahili, two Spanish, one Arabic and one Vietnamese. Because of NCLB, these students had to spend at least 50% of every day in the classroom with the English speaking students. The teacher was providing three separate curriculums--4th, 5th, and ELL. Add into that mix our geographic location: The school is home to some of the poorest neighborhoods in all of Lansing. 90% of the kids qualified for free lunches. A lot of the kids were being raised by their grandmothers; I would guess that over 75% of the students had only one adult in hte home. It wasn't unusual for a student to have two or three address changes in a single school year. Not a recipe for a disciplined learning environment, to put it as mildly as I can.

I kicked and screamed and got my kids into a magnet program for next year. To be honest, I didn't have to try that hard. My 3rd and 5th graders scored in the 95th percentile on last fall's standardized tests, all three had great report cards, and all three were highly recommended by teachers and extracurricular "advisors"--scout leaders, religious ed teachers, etc. Besides, the district had two choices: Give us what we wanted or lose $6,700 x 3. I can't help but feel a tremendous amount of pity for the kids or teachers remaining at the school. The deck is totally stacked against them.

The principal had all kinds of time to focus on the minutiae, by the way, because she was completely unconcerned with actual academics. That tends to free up the calendar. The teachers supplying the paper was certainly cheaper for the district than supplying workbooks to each student, also. I bought copy paper for the teachers every single time I saw it on sale (I know some other parents did as well), but even at a sale price I spent over $200 this past year, just on paper.

[SoftballMominVA]

The students that show progress in charter schools are typically those enrolled in a school that largely replaces the family and time out of school. For instance,the KIPP schools have school 6 days a week, up to 10 - 12 hours a day (when the 2-3 hours of after school tutoring and homework is included), Saturdays, and large parts of the summer. In other words, unless the time spent in the toxic environment of the streets is lessened, nothing changes - the $$ could triple, quadruple, or go into infinity and NOTHING will change because the true root of the problem is not the school, but the culture in which these kids are soaked and have been soaked for generations.

Inner city kids nowadays are the product of generational welfare, thanks liberals! How's that ADC working out for us?

[SoftballMominVA]

Wait... wait... did you see this nugget at the end?

Parents of students with scholarships were more satisfied with their children's new schools and were less likely to worry that schools could be dangerous, the report found. Students showed no difference in their level of satisfaction.

So the kids are doing NO better, and sometimes worse, but the parents FEEL better about being in a private school - and the kids couldn't either way!

Yeah, let's throw more money at the problem, that'll work.

[SoftballMominVA]

The DC Public School system is a basket case. I doubt that the DC charters did no better than DC Public Schools.

Some charters did worse that DCPS. The bar just can't be set any lower - and they still missed.

But the parents FELT better, so who can put a price tag on that? (sarcasm off)

[SoftballMominVA]

As for the $6,700...I'd love to know where it went, because it didn't go into the classroom..

As a teacher, I would be in your debt forever if you, as a parent, got together a group of parents, and took this problem to a public school board meeting and demanded change. This level of micro-managing is wasteful and degrading. It can and will translate into lower scores and lower morale because it is so demeaning.

[barb-tex]

True enough about magnet schools, how ever some times, unbelievable at may seem. points are given where needed to “balance the demographics. True non-minorities, must meet the standards. Magnet schools aside, any one can be enrolled in PS.
barbra ann

[Keith Brown]

Well that’s somthing.

Considering how my kids were treated at high school....I’d cheer for the change!

[grellis]

I completely agree with you about the effects of micromanaging. I haven't attended school board meetings because they are held at the same time as the religious ed class I teach.

I've found some useful ways of making my grievances known in the past year, though. One advantage of living downtown is that everything, including the school district admin buildings, is in walking distance. I don't even bother with phone calls. They're not nearly as effective as a face to face.

This was the first year in our district for our superintendant, and he was left an absolute mess by the previous super. Jury is still out on how effective he will be, but I saw some very positive signs. The first time I called the district to complain about the principal, I spoke with the super for nearly two hours. The next day, the principal was out of the school most of the day, in an unscheduled meeting with the admin. Not long after that, the school was assigned three additional teachers and two "behavioral specialists"--enforcers, basically. The enforcers were given the go-ahead by the admin to address disciplinary issues in ways that the principal would not. That made a big difference in the school, but it was the tip of a very big iceberg.

[big'ol_freeper]

If vouchers do nothing else but lessen or eliminate the socialist agenda from being implemented then it is a worthwhile endeavor.

Sometimes you need to break the mold and start over again. The best thing that could ever happen would be for public schools to be sold off to private enterprise and let the marketplace work in allocating educational opportunities.

[Polybius]

Why should people (senior citizens, grandparents) who have paid for their children’s education have to continue to pay for societies education? .....Bob

1. Because taxpayers that were old in the 1940's, the 1950's and the 1960's and who are already dead paid for their education when today's senior citizens were children in the in the 1940's, the 1950's and the 1960's.

2. Because young taxpayers now in the workforce who are not related to them are paying taxes to support all the social service that, as senior citizens, they are taking advantage of right now.

2. Because, 10-15 years from now, when those senior citizens have loooong since ceased contributing any tax dollars to society, young students who are now in high school who are not related to them will be paying taxes to support all the social service that, as senior citizens, they will be taking advantage of.

How about a deal?

Senior citizens can opt out of paying any taxes for any services that benefit the younger generations and the younger generations can then opt out of any taxes that benefit senior citizens right now and in the future.

Since the younger generation will probably find the Social Security system bankrupt when they are old, the deal can start by the younger generations stopping all Social Security and Medicare tax payments and letting senior citizens fend for themselves.

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“I apologize; I misread your post.”

Could happen to anybody, thanks.

“What will the Catholic school do to hold down the costs?”

I have no idea. I don’t think there’s much they can do. Since Catholic schools employ lay teachers by-and-large today, there is simply no way to save money on the faculty (more than they do so now by paying low wages and having not-so-great benefits). Add to that problem that fact that most Catholic school administrators in diocesan schools are limited in their options and have little ingenuity in raising money (or at least have done little to do so until recent years), and the future looks pretty bleak. REALLY expensive Catholic schools attended by rich kids are doing extremely well. Take Providence Academy in Plymouth, Minnesota, for example. $14,000 a year tuition and they have families dying to get their kids in there! But those are wealthy families. Look in the parking lot and you don’t see any broken down family cars being driven by the upper classmen. They spent $41,000,000 building their school. Forty-one million. Amazing.

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“Our diocese is going to be the first in Michigan to have its own school district.”

If you mean “consolidation”, I’m afraid that only delays the end of the school. That is, unless, they institute a funding program similar to that of Wichita, Kansas. But that kind of plan takes guts and must bishops don’t have guts these days.

[SoftballMominVA]

I know that some people may not believe it, but teachers have amazingly little say in the day to day running of a school. As a voting bloc - yes, the NEA has power, but on a school district basis, no, the grievances of teachers have little sway among the administrators.

I can guarantee you that ten parents have unspeakable power within a small district and twenty or so unified parents could change almost anything. Look at what you accomplished with ONE phone call! Now multiply that by 10 or 20 and the principal would be out this year.

[RKBA Democrat]

Vouchers stink, but not for the reasons detailed in this article.

Vouchers are a political red herring. And I’m failing to see how one wealth redistribution measure (vouchers) are all that more palatable than government schools.

I guess the idea of allowing taxpayers to keep their money and educate their children as they see fit is just too radical a concept.

[Amelia]

Craziness...and people wonder why students are not achieving? It seems to me that in your district, teachers are trying to teach despite insane administrative policies.

[Amelia]

The students that show progress in charter schools are typically those enrolled in a school that largely replaces the family and time out of school.

And unfortunately, that's what some of these students appear to need...but that's not good for the rest of us who would prefer to raise our children ourselves.

So, how do you force people to be good parents - and should children & society suffer because some people aren't good parents? And if not, what should be done about it?

[Amelia]

I have no idea. I don’t think there’s much they can do. Since Catholic schools employ lay teachers by-and-large today, there is simply no way to save money on the faculty (more than they do so now by paying low wages and having not-so-great benefits). Add to that problem that fact that most Catholic school administrators in diocesan schools are limited in their options and have little ingenuity in raising money (or at least have done little to do so until recent years), and the future looks pretty bleak.

Supposedly, church schools have some advantage over public schools because they can use buildings that would otherwise be largely unused except on Sundays. Also, many parochial schools require students to buy their own books, don't have libraries, lunchrooms, bus systems, or special education programs (including for severely handicapped students) - so those can be significant savings.

It appears to me that there must be a bottom limit on how much expenses can be cut, however.

[Amelia]

Vouchers are a political red herring. And I’m failing to see how one wealth redistribution measure (vouchers) are all that more palatable than government schools. I guess the idea of allowing taxpayers to keep their money and educate their children as they see fit is just too radical a concept.

Okay, I understand what you're saying, but how do you educate the children of those taxpayers who have no money to begin with without some sort of "wealth distribution measure"?

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“Supposedly, church schools have some advantage over public schools because they can use buildings that would otherwise be largely unused except on Sundays.”

But in the process they still use them all week long whereas the public school may go almost unused all weekend. In other words, you’re saying the church based school will be open and running six or seven days a week. That’s not cheap!

“Also, many parochial schools require students to buy their own books,...”

But most don’t.

“... don’t have libraries,”

Most do.

“...lunchrooms,”

Most do. And do you mean a cafeteria that serves hot lunches? A lunchroom is just a room. A cafeteria that serves hot food is another story altogether. And many Catholics schools have those too.

“...bus systems,”

Catholic schools pay for buses.

“or special education programs (including for severely handicapped students)”

Catholic schools rarely have many special ed. programs because they are impossible to afford. That has not stopped bishops from requiring more and more services from Catholic schools in that regard without funding it in anyway.

“...so those can be significant savings.”

Nope. The simple fact is, if you got rid of the things you listed it would not be considered much of a school in the common American sense and parents would pull their kids out. Besides a lunchroom and library effectively cost next to nothing. Kids pay for the meals and the libraries have small budgets because kids rarely read books these days. Most school libraries are used as quiet places of study or as computer labs. That is true at both public and private schools - and even public libraries! Yesterday I dropped by the local public library and noticed that none of the teenagers were checking out books. Little kids were checking out huge stacks of books, but the teens had not a book near them. The teens were there to use the computers, update their facebook account, check email, whatever.

“It appears to me that there must be a bottom limit on how much expenses can be cut, however.”

Catholic schools across the country are at that limit. The local Catholic school district just cut a handful of teachers for financial reasons. If they can’t turn this around soon, they’ll close their doors for good.