Broken Compact Fluorescent Causes Mercury Poisoning (Vapor problem overlooked by RATS)

Rush Limbaugh .com ^ | 6/13/08 | The Maha

[LibertyRocks]

I think they are talking about “ziploc” type bags for disposal. However, I definitely see your point - very ironic isn’t it? I reminds me of all the envirowhackos who demanded that our forests not be touched - resulting in TONS of fuel for wildfires that then spread out of control. It also reminds me of what would happen were we to ban hunting here in Wisconsin with the deer population...

There is really no thought beyond the immediate effects for these people who push laws like this.

[singfreedom]

Isn’t it the nanny state that is insisting we use these bulbs? Its certainly not the general public.

For my purposes they don’t give nearly enough light. They stink for reading, sewing, anything requiring near point vision. I resent being told I have to use something I think is substandard.

[nightlight7]

I went to CF bulbs long before the libs started noticing them. Then the LED bulbs.

I'm assuming that my pack a day habit is much more dangerous.

Actually, smoking is protective against variety of toxic exposures, including heavy metals. Some unknown ingredient(s) in tobacco smoke nearly doubles the main internal antioxidants and detox enzymes in human body: glutathione (which, among others, neutralizes and excretes mercury), catalse and SOD.

For example, in a large series of experiments in 1974 (on behalf of National Cancer Institute) on hamsters exposed in groups to variety of industrial pollutants, including toxic metals, which were tested separately on smoking and nonsmoking hamsters, the authors state (see summary of results on page 40 in the pdf file):

With the exception of the two asbestos-exposed groups (Groups 5 and 6), the groups exposed to cigarette smoke lived significantly (p<0.05) longer than their sham-smoke-exposed cohorts. The hamsters exposed to asbestos plus cigarette smoke also outlived their sham-smoke-exposed cohorts; however the difference was not statistically significant. Asbestos decreased the lifespan of the asbestos-exposed groups and thereby masked, to a degree, the difference in the survival between the smoke-exposed animals and their sham-smoke-exposed cohorts which is so readily apparent in other groups (Figure 23).

Here is one of the graphs illustrating the consistent general pattern (upper curve is for survival advantage of smoking vs nonsmoking hamsters exceeding 40%, while the lower curve shows weight difference, with smoking hamsters staying thinner by 12 to 25%):

See also another thread here on FR, where more recent experiments (from 2005; which, as they always do when smoking is put to test, also went the "wrong" way -- smoking mice & rats live longer and stay thinner) were discussed. So, enjoy this ancient miracle medicine and don't listen to antismoking swindlers, since believing them does harm your health (via nocebo or "witch doctor" effect).

[Swordmaker]

In this case however, I would assume that there are medical records to back up his story. If he truly had a reaction of this sort - as well as the worker who was processing it for return - then it’s definitely something to think about. If it is a problem, I don’t think this would be a completely isolated case, either... However, unless something becomes an epidemic we don’t usually hear about it, do we?

His described symptoms are those of hysteria... not Mercury poisoning. Mercury poisoning is a cumulative heavy metal poison with symptoms much like those of Lead poisoning. It takes a long time to get poisoned by Mercury unless you are literally walking through the vapors exuded by boiling Mercury, in which case, Mercury poisoning is the least of your worries, and even then it takes time for the symptoms to appear.

Symptoms typically include sensory impairment (vision, hearing, speech), disturbed sensation and a lack of coordination.

I don't care that there are medical records of his totally unnecessary EM call, Emergency Room visit, or any follow up. Those exist because he was ignorant and scared. He was NOT poisoned by Mercury. He was poisoned by propaganda.

If it is a problem, I don’t think this would be a completely isolated case, either... However, unless something becomes an epidemic we don’t usually hear about it, do we?

Note that the Emergency Medical Response people really didn't know what to do for Mercury poisoning... nor did the ER physician. If it were such a widespread issue, with millions of CFLs and tube fluorescent lights breaking every year, these professionals would know instantly how to handle it. They were at a loss. Ergo, it is NOT A PROBLEM. It's Liberal, Nanny State FUD.

I'm not saying that Mercury is totally innocuous, but it takes some work to get Mercury poisoning. Fluorescent lighting with mercury in it has been around for 75 years. It is NOT a dire health problem or even a environmental problem.

If you really want a good example of regulatory or legislative "unintended consequences" you need look no further than California mandating the use of Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether (MTBE) in all gasoline in California. The first UC was the small problem that MTBEs dissolved the synthetic rubber used in older fuel lines and some plastics used in older fuel systems. This produced millions of dollars of repair bills to older vehicles. The most egregious UC is that MTBE is carcinogenic... and is finding its way into the California water table and our water supplies. It is also finding its way into vegetables, fruits and meats. Now THAT is a really scary unintended consequence.

[Yaelle]

I still remember the callers responding to when Rush said he was always seeing women farding in their cars! :)

[maine-iac7]

I hate to say it, but this sounds like two cases of hysteria

You still believe our politicians wouldn't mandate/force something into our homes that would be hazardous?

Better educate yourself: Here's the warnings in my state:

http://www.maine.gov/dep/rwm/homeowner/cflbreakcleanup.htm

Not only are the dangerous in the home but anyone who thinks that everyone is going to package up the broken/used ones and cart them off to a hazardous waste center and pay for disposal is naive to the max.

These things will, by the millions, be thrown into the regular trash and all our landfills across the country have the potential to become major toxic waste dumps.

Wake up, Sheeple. The gov't tells us, first, what kind of toilet we can/can't have. Now they are controlling what kind of light bulbs we can have.............we need to tell the gov't to GET OUT OF OUR HOMES.

In the meantime, I'm stocking up on conventional bulbs and making sure I have enough lamps to last my lifetime as they are also going to mandate light fixtures be restricted to take ONLY these little bombs.

Live link next post

[maine-iac7]

http://www.maine.gov/dep/rwm/homeowner/cflbreakcleanup.htm

[LibertyRocks]

Ah, I understand what you are saying now about the hysteria regarding his symptoms...

I also agree with everything you’ve spoken about in regards to long-term exposures, etc...

The one thing I did notice that was rather odd in regards to his purported ER visit was that the doctors nor the EMT supposedly knew ANYTHING about mercury exposure... that strikes me as a pretty wild “accusation” against these medical professionals. I can’t imagine a doctor not knowing anything about mercury poisoning, the effects, or protocol of such. Of course, we weren’t there, and perhaps the doctor was telling him there’s nothing they can do because he wasn’t experiencing an acute exposure, or effects... Or, maybe this guy in his anxious state just thought he was being ignored???

Anyway, your points are well taken. And, thank you for the information about CA and the MTBE issue. I wasn’t aware of that, and yes, that’s a worrisome thing for sure...

[Swordmaker]

It strikes me as a little odd that you would complain about the “nanny state” and yet, support this law that requires everyone to use a certain product. A little ironic don’t you think?

How in hell do you get the idea that I support this law?

I support good science not bad science. The law that will outlaw incandescent lamps is based on BAD science... as is the FUD being spread about Mercury poisoning and the so-called dangers of CFL lamps.

The fear IS being spread by the government. They are the ones requiring HAZMAT level disposal of a product that was once, when broken, routinely swept up and tossed into the nearest garbage can. Heck, when I was working for a fairly large industrial concern many years ago, we routinely broke burned out eight foot fluorescent tubes in to smaller pieces so they would fit in the dumpsters instead of leaving them sticking out where kids might take them out and break them on the pavement. It was a recommended safety measure by the manufacturers.

Just because citizens are swallowing this eco bilge wholesale, and becoming paranoid about things that are reasonably and acceptably safe, doesn't mean we have to be so fearful of excellent products such as CFLs, which can save us energy and money, that we eschew the use of them.

I am surprised to see this degree of unscientific worry on FreeRepublic. The list of excellent and useful products that have been banned by our regulators and legislators due to bad science is long and storied and the unintended consequences of those bans is perhaps even longer and more storied.

That doesn't mean I have to sit still for it happening again.

[maine-iac7]

read post 67 - better wake up, Sheeple

[LibertyRocks]

Just for good measure, I think people should be informed of the recommended clean-up procedures... I have copied and pasted below the text from your link:

http://www.maine.gov/dep/rwm/homeowner/cflbreakcleanup.htm
What if I accidentally break a fluorescent lamp in my house?

cfl bulbs

The lamp contains a small amount of mercury, but you can clean this up yourself if you do the following:

* Do not use a vacuum cleaner to clean up the breakage. This will spread the mercury vapor and dust throughout the area and could potentially contaminate the vacuum.
* Keep people and pets away from the breakage area until the cleanup is complete.
* Ventilate the area by opening windows, and leave the area for 15 minutes before returning to begin the cleanup. Mercury vapor levels will be lower by then.
* For maximum protection and if you have them, wear rubber gloves to protect your hands from the sharp glass.
* Carefully remove the larger pieces and place them in a secure closed container, preferably a glass container with a metal screw top lid and seal like a canning jar.1 A glass jar with a good seal works best to contain any mercury vapors inside.2
* Next, begin collecting the smaller pieces and dust. You can use two stiff pieces of paper such as index cards or playing cards to scoop up pieces.
* Pat the area with the sticky side of duct tape, packing tape or masking tape to pick up fine particles. Wipe the area with a wet wipe or damp paper towel to pick up even finer particles.
* Put all waste and materials into the glass container, including all material used in the cleanup that may have been contaminated with mercury. Label the container as “Universal Waste - broken lamp.”
* Remove the container with the breakage and cleanup materials from your home. This is particularly important if you do not have a glass container.
* Continue ventilating the room for several hours.
* Wash your hands and face.
* Take the glass container with the waste material to a facility that accepts “universal waste” for recycling. To determine where your municipality has made arrangements for recycling of this type of waste, call your municipal office or find your town in this list municipal collection sites (MS Excel format) (pdf format).
* When a break happens on carpeting, homeowners may consider removing throw rugs or the area of carpet where the breakage occurred as a precaution, particularly if the rug is in an area frequented by infants, small children or pregnant women.
* Finally, if the carpet is not removed, open the window to the room during the next several times you vacuum the carpet to provide good ventilation.

The next time you replace a lamp, consider putting a drop cloth on the floor so that any accidental breakage can be easily cleaned up. If consumers remain concerned regarding safety, they may consider not utilizing fluorescent lamps in situations where they could easily be broken. Consumers may also consider avoiding CFL usage in bedrooms or carpeted areas frequented by infants, small children, or pregnant women. Finally, consider not storing too many used/spent lamps before recycling as that may increase your chances of breakage. Don’t forget to properly recycle your used fluorescent bulbs so they don’t break and put mercury into our environment.

1Other jars that can be made of glass and also work are pickle, peanut butter and applesauce jars. Not ideal but also a good choice for containing breakage is a heavy duty #2 plastic container with either a screw lid or push-on lid such as a joint compound bucket or certain kitty litter-type containers.

2If the only suitable jar available has food in it, you may need to empty it into another container before using it.

[supercat]

Unless this bulb was illuminated at the time it broke, the mercury in it was in the form of a tiny droplet. It is not a gas or vapor until you start the bulb when it aid the formation of the plasma.

I'm pretty sure a typical fluorescent tube doesn't contain any significant quantity of gas other than mercury. Since mercury evaporates at low pressures, the tube would be filled with mercury vapor. Depending upon temperature, there may be some liquid mercury as well, but mercury in its liquid state doesn't fluoresce usefully.

[maine-iac7]

“According to the EPA it should be placed in a double plastic bags and brought to your outside garbage can.”

not in my state - maybe you should research

http://www.maine.gov/dep/rwm/homeowner/cflbreakcleanup.htm

[supercat]

Heck, when I was working for a fairly large industrial concern many years ago, we routinely broke burned out eight foot fluorescent tubes in to smaller pieces so they would fit in the dumpsters instead of leaving them sticking out where kids might take them out and break them on the pavement.

If done outdoors, I don't see a particular problem. Any glass in compacted trash is likely to get broken, and much of the mercury will dissipate into the air before it goes into a landfill. The quantities involved are really tiny in any case.

I would not want to make a job of smashing thousands of fluorescent tubes daily in a poorly-ventilate 10'x10'x10' room, but for people without unusual mercury sensitivity a one-off exposure from a broken bulb isn't going to be particularly harmful.

[LibertyRocks]

You’re right - I made a bad jump in reasoning and concluded that you didn’t see the problems in requiring everyone to use these light bulbs.

I understand what you are saying now in regards to how our government is suggesting we clean up and dispose of these bulbs that is causing worry and causing perhaps undue fear. I didn’t understand how you were arriving at that conclusion before.

I think we really are on the same side in this argument, however, I was the one mistaken about where you stood. I apologize for that. (I think I need to go to bed early tonight - I think my brain is just tuckered out at this point as I didn’t get much rest last night! :) )

[maine-iac7]

“

Rush is never more dangerous than when he is joking.”

It’s no joke - wake up, Sheeple

http://www.maine.gov/dep/rwm/homeowner/cflbreakcleanup.htm

[maine-iac7]

Bingo

wake up Sheeple

http://www.maine.gov/dep/rwm/homeowner/cflbreakcleanup.htm

[LibertyRocks]

The glass jar was said to be preferable, however in the absence of one, the next proposed method was a double plastic baggie... Granted, at this point I’m basing this on the speech given before Congress linked earlier in this thread. Rep. Roe introduced these EPA guidelines into the Congressional Record as well. I’d have to go look it up on the EPA site for confirmation, although I can’t imagine for him to have made it up as he was trying to prove that this law was ridiculous, and it could be easily disproven if he were lying.

I’ll have to do this at a later time because as I just said in a previous post, I’m getting quite tired, and my brain just isn’t working like it should as a result! :)

BTW: I reproduced the precautions you put up from the State of Maine on this thread - just so everyone could be better informed. So, thanks for linking it here.

[Swordmaker]

For my purposes they don’t give nearly enough light. They stink for reading, sewing, anything requiring near point vision. I resent being told I have to use something I think is substandard.

Your experience with them may be a bit our-of-date. The latest compact fluorescents lamps are often full spectrum (sunlight) or designed to replicate the spectrum of the various spectra of incandescent lamp output. Most of them now emit more lumens (brightness) than the incandescent lamp wattage they are intended to replace. They are available in dim-able versions that work with standard dimmers and even in spotlight or flood light versions. Long persistence phosphors have eliminated the head-ache inducing flicker often associated with fluorescent tube lights of the past. A lot of these improvements have been engendered in the past two to five years as the demand by consumers for better light increased along with the increasing use of CFLs.

There are applications where CFLs are not suitable replacements for incandescent lamps. Unfortunately, the stupid and ill-advised laws that are being passed make little accommodation for those uses.

I, too, resent being TOLD to use something whether it is substandard or not. If I choose to waste the additional energy using an incandescent lamp, it is ME paying for it, and it's none of the government's damn business. On the other hand, I prefer to embrace new technologies that work... but I also use older technologies for reasons of nostalgia or preference. Again, the government should have no say in the matter.

Just don't use bad science to try and make your point.

[maine-iac7]

“Are you aware that the amalgam fillings in your teeth contain mercury?”

Are YOU aware that even the FDA just issued a warning about the dangers of mercury in the amalgam fillings - decades behind homeopathic warnings?

And what about this? This is just the warnings in my state

http://www.maine.gov/dep/rwm/homeowner/cflbreakcleanup.htm