Logic? My friend, the delusional don't NEED no stinkin' logic!
Posted on 06/11/2008 4:59:10 AM PDT by Flo Nightengale
Texas police have been standing guard outside the home of the Texas judge who ordered the removal of all the FLDS children from the YFZ Ranch. The heightened security was ordered after authorities from Utah and Arizona warned them to be on the lookout for FLDS "enforcers," the Deseret News has learned.
Every officer guarding Judge Barbara Walther's San Angelo house was provided dossiers and photos of 16 FLDS men and women whom Utah police deemed a threat. However, e-mails obtained by the Deseret News from the Washington County Sheriff's Office warned Texas authorities to be suspicious of everybody, not just those on the list.
"There are many individuals who are willing to give up their life for the cause and you can never underestimate what a religious fanatic is capable of," according to the e-mails, which were obtained through Texas' public records law.
Police were also keeping close tabs on witnesses, as the "enforcers" might try to "intimidate kids and other witnesses, watch foster homes where kids may be placed, bribe witnesses, appear at court hearings, and make attempts to contact FLDS kids," according to an e-mail from an investigator with the Tom Green County District Attorney's Office.
Law enforcement in Texas has been on alert since a Fundamentalist LDS Church-related Web site published Walther's home address and work and home telephone numbers.
Walther signed the original order to remove all of the FLDS children from the YFZ Ranch in April and place them in state custody.
An attorney for the FLDS Church said its followers are peaceful people and that law enforcement has nothing to worry about.
"Have they ever seen an act of intimidation or violence against law enforcement from the FLDS community at all, ever?" Rod Parker told the Deseret News. "Before they start spreading those kinds of rumors, they ought to be able to ID an example of them ever doing that in the past."
As for the threat to "pay Ms. Walther's home a visit," on the site www.flds.ws, Parker said the site is not sanctioned by the FLDS Church. The site is run by Bill Medvecky, a Fort Myers, Fla., man who has donated to the fund for captive FLDS children, Parker said.
Once Parker told church leaders that the post could be construed as a threat, they contacted Medvecky and had him remove the judge's address, he said.
However, Walther's work and phone numbers are still listed on the Web site. The site calls Walther the "leader of the Gestapo," and includes a link to a petition to impeach the judge.
Medvecky doesn't see the harm in publishing Walther's address on the Internet. After all, it's in the phone book, he said.
"They are not confrontational whatsoever. I am," Medvecky told the Deseret News. "They are not me, and they have nothing to do with the site. We support them 100 percent."
Texas law enforcement wasn't aware of the threat until early June, but the dossiers "regarding any FLDS members who may engage in acts of intimidation or violence against law enforcement and/or potential witnesses" started circulating April 16.
The dossiers track individuals in FLDS leader Warren Jeffs' circle of trust, as well as a few "wild cards" that make Utah authorities "uncomfortable."
The list includes Willie Jessop, who has acted as one of the main spokesmen for the FLDS Church after the April 3 raid on the Yearning For Zion Ranch. The dossier calls him — William Roy Jessop — "the most serious threat associated with the FLDS religion."
Others included on the list are Lyle Steed Jeffs, Warren Jeffs' brother; and Lindsay Hammon Barlow, who witnesses described as Warren Jeffs' "muscle," among others.
"It is very obvious that Washington County officials do not let the facts get in the way of a good story," Willie Jessop said. "These are the types of paranoid allegations that can hurt a lot of innocent people if they are allowed to go unchecked.
"I don't know what the remedy is, but it should alarm everyone when an investigator does not even bother to fact check what he is supposed to be investigating."
The dossiers include the persons of interests' last known address and possible vehicles.
Washington County sheriff's deputies compiled the dossiers by tracking individuals during Warren Jeffs' 2007 trial, where he was convicted of rape as an accomplice after performing a marriage between a 14-year-old girl and her 19-year-old cousin. He was sentenced to a pair of five-to-life prison terms.
Police believe Jessop, also known as "Willie the Thug" or "King Willie" in the dossiers, is the primary FLDS "enforcer" and has a passion for violence, weapons (legal and illegal) and explosives.
On the third day of Warren Jeffs' trial, Jessop was banned from the courthouse after "it was determined he was attempting to intimidate the witnesses, after he was observed numerous (times) staring menacingly at the witnesses," according to the dossiers.
Jessop said he and other FLDS men and women who attended Jeffs' highly publicized trial were there as observers, nothing more.
"The fact that we would show up in court and then to have them turn that around on us shows how biased these public officials are," Jessop said. "There are no facts, no history of violence, not a shred of evidence to support these irresponsible allegations. Not one bit of it is true and these officials know it."
Other FLDS members showed up on the dossiers for a variety of things, from staring down and intimidating witnesses, being an active member of Warren Jeffs' security team, or holding a high rank in the FLDS Church's hierarchy.
Utah police also warned Texas officials of so-called "wild cards" or "religious fanatics," including Ruth Cooke, a woman police said is "blindly devoted to Warren and the FLDS religion," according to the dossiers.
"She is just the kind of person who may be capable of doing something crazy but justified in her head," the dossiers state.
Dee Yeates Jessop is another "intimidating enforcer" who police described as a fanatic who blindly follows Jeffs. Witnesses told police Dee Yeates Jessop is "relatively unimportant" in the church's command structure.
"His social status makes all the more dangerous. What would he do to improve his standing?" according to the dossiers.
Several other high-ranking church officials show up in the dossiers, like William E. Jessop, a high-ranking elder in the FLDS Church, and David Allred, who is involved in the church's finances and is "fairly high in the FLDS pecking order." However, the dossiers said the men were unlikely to be considered a threat, but could be involved in the decision-making process because of their positions of power.
Both Willie Jessop and Parker, who has also acted as a spokesman for the church, discounted the dossiers.
"If they are going to malign people's character like that, they ought to have something better than someone staring at somebody or looking at them funny," Parker said. "This is the same kind of rumor-mongering that I've been complaining about for a long time. These rumors tend to feed on themselves."
Wow. What other pen names do you publish fiction under?
Can’t call it fiction when it’s documented historical fact, dude!
Yeah, I saw that too!
The town looks like Fallujah with all the ugly security walls surrounding their huge unfinished homes. I can see why the Texas authorities acted like they did. If I had a place like Colorado City in my state, and I was governor, I’d feel obliged to do something about it, whether or not it resulted in dead bodies. Those people are blatantly braking the law.
“Warren Jeffs is perfect”
Hey, have you guys seen this story?
“The only thing lacking is a little thing called evidence.”
Here’s the thing, polygamy is illegal, as it should be. The people of Colorado City (which I know were talking about Texas but their the same group) are polygamist and have been for decades. Everyone knows it and no one is doing a thing about it. The authorities in Texas said, “we’re not putting up with what Arizona has put up with.” I don’t really blame them. Utah wouldn’t, and didn’t put up with them either.
Because we’re all afraid action might somehow limit our freedom we allow them to have their own little nation with their own laws. I’m against government intrusion but it’s not like these people are Methodist and just have bad doctrine, they’re a wicked abusive cult. If the FLDS set up a compound in Oklahoma, I’d hope my state’s government would drive them clean out.
Yep. Right now the members are very subversively registering to vote. The Judge and possibly the Sheriff just might be out of a job come election day. Terrifying.
“Throw a rock over a fence and the dog that yelps is the one that got hit.”
So if you accuse someone of something and they defend themselves, they are proved guilty because of the need to defend. If the accused don’t respond, the maxim of qui tacet consentire videtur can be used, and they are proved guilty by not responding.
Can someone name this logical fallacy in ten posts or less?
The green-and-white Ford LTD was new, and it was the spiffiest car Ervil had ever owned. Not only had his daughter's blood soiled his precious car, it was also an indication of sloppy work by the murderers -- whom he'd contracted.
"That's inexcusable!" he roared at his goons. "It's just stupidity. We can't have any more of it."
Ervil LeBaron had his daughter killed because God told him to do it. God had told the fundamentalist Mormon to do a lot of peculiar things over the years, and Ervil always obeyed without question.
When the Almighty commanded him to "be fruitful and multiply," Ervil took 13 wives and sired over 50 children.
When God told Ervil to kill, he did that too. His followers slashed a bloody trail across Mexico and the American Southwest that left 25 to 30 people dead. Among the victims were Ervil's wives, his brother, former members of his church, leaders of rival polygamous clans, and his 17-year-old pregnant daughter Becky.
Even after Ervil LeBaron died in a jail cell in 1981, the violence didn't stop. He left behind a long hit list, and his children picked up his bloody mantle, hunting down their father's enemies far and wide and eliminating them.
To this day, former members of the LeBaron cult whose names are on that list are still in hiding.
-SNIP-
Like Joseph Smith, the LeBaron family had a history of revelations from God, which they alternately referred to as voices, callings or commands. Alma Dayer LeBaron had a revelation to take a second wife - prompting the clan's move to Mexico - and another telling him not to register for the WWII draft.
Many members of the LeBaron clan claimed to hear voices, and many suffered from insanity, Scott Anderson writes in The 4 O'Clock Murders.
Alma Dayer LeBaron's daughter Lucinda grew so violent during her bouts of psychosis that her parents chained her by the ankle to a hut. Son Ben drifted in and out of mental hospitals for years after hearing voices tell him he was God; he committed suicide in 1978 by jumping off a bridge. Son Wesley frequently called Salt Lake City radio talk shows to expound his belief that Jesus Christ would one day return to earth in a spaceship. The voices told nephew Owen to have sex with the family dog, and he was also committed to a mental hospital.
These are just a few examples of LeBaron lunacy; erratic behavior and beliefs seemed to plague the entire clan, but no one more than Ervil LeBaron, who believed he had the God-given power to kill.
No one accused anyone of anything. But we got a yelp right away.
Logic? My friend, the delusional don't NEED no stinkin' logic!
Makes one wonder what Medvecky's FR screen name is.
And the usual suspects show up to play the See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil game. I’ve long told people that there are enforcers among different Mormon sects, they trace their roots to the Danites and Blood Atonement.
But we know the story, the FLDS are pure as the driven snow, even though Warren Jeffs is rotting in jail and his henchmen are not far behind.
You are just jealous, because the voices talk to me.
Freepers shouldn’t feel more than a twinge of identification with these cultists. We don’t practice breaking the law under the cover of super-secret religious rights. We are in general, rule followers who bring the truth out into the open as we question, push and advocate for change of illogical laws and anything less than forthright, even handed enforcement of the law.
Don’t let anyone lump us in with deliberate polygamists and advocates of child marriage, either. The great majority of Texas Freepers supported our Defense of Marriage Act and Constitutional amendment defining marriage as between one man and one woman. A lot of us fought to protect our daughters and sons by standardizing the age of consent.
Neither should anyone malign the law enforcement in Texas, including the CPS workers. Everyone tried to follow the law, step by step. Before the Texas Supreme Court ruling and even since, lawyers have been debating the fine point of the definition of “household” in a communal setting with illegal polygamist adults and children who aren’t sure who their biological mothers and siblings are. By looking around in the light - even before the safes were opened or any DNA tested - their eyes gave evidence of girls who were pregnant and/or mothers while under age as well as many more women who were joined to illegal and immoral “marriages” while under the age of consent, but have passed their 18th birthday. (What is the statute of limitations for child rape and polygamy, I wonder?)
The dispute is whether the girls and children should have been moved without a warrant issued for each mother or to place the limits on them that the TxSC listed.
Many of us question whether it was appropriate to allow the mothers to leave and stay with their children. This is not the usual practice when children are removed from abusive homes. One of the early articles mentioned that the families were taken to family shelters set up for victims of domestic abuse. Letting the moms go with the children was probably a compassionate decision. (and another example that no good deed goes un-punished.)
“Makes one wonder who burned the Governor’s mansion.”
It does seem the timing is suspicious.
heh.
(this just gets better and better, doesn’t it?)
Good call my dear Watson.
Surreal, I would say.
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