Posted on 06/10/2008 8:51:53 AM PDT by abb
As a district judge heard the state's case for keeping children from a polygamous sect in custody, hundreds of electronic and telephone messages were pouring into Texas Gov. Rick Perry's office.
They came from around the country - including Utah - and most made the same point: Send the children home to their mothers.
By April 17, three days after separating mothers from their children, the office had received 449 messages opposed to the removal of the children and just 32 from people who supported it.
"If you do nothing to protect these rights, you can be assured that you will not have my vote now or ever in the future," one Texan wrote.
"Do something!!!" said another.
Yet, Perry kept his distance from events unfolding in west Texas. Through his staff, Perry said only that he was in full support of the Department of Family and Protective Services - a position he reiterated last week in an interview with a Texas newspaper.
The public response to the removal of about 450 children from the Yearning for Zion Ranch in Eldorado is included in nearly 3,000 pages of documents acquired by the sect through a records request and provided to The Salt Lake Tribune.
The documents show that in late March, Texas Rangers and Child Protective Services were independently contacted about an abused girl at the YFZ Ranch and had begun separate investigations.
As CPS prepared to visit the ranch, Texas Rangers asked the agency to hold off until it readied its own response. That helps explain why four days lapsed between the call - now known to be a hoax - and the raid, initiated on April 3.
The documents show high-level state officials received hourly updates as law officers entered the ranch and began removing children, taking them first to Eldorado and then to a fort in San Angelo.
The inadequate shelter conditions at Fort Concho were quickly apparent. An April 7 e-mail states: "We have reached the saturation point in San Angelo and some of the buildings do not have air conditioning, which is a problem."
That led the state to look for another shelter and within a day it had settled on a Salvation Army facility in Midlothian. As part of the move, it planned to separate adult mothers from children. But there was a snag, according to an April 8 e-mail: The Salvation Army wanted no part of the conflict and asked that the separation occur elsewhere.
But the move to another county was nixed and the state devised a new plan, relocation to the San Angelo Coliseum - a move that again included the "highly complicated and risky operation" of separating out adult women.
The women were to be told only that they were moving to the coliseum, the e-mails show.
Officials feared that some women were planning to escape, so they increased the number of staff and law officers. They also took steps to remove three "first" wives - older women, apparently - who seemed to hold sway over other women.
State officials kept tabs on media reports from across the country and circulated talking points to ensure public comments stayed consistent and on target.
Kathy Walt, Perry's deputy chief of staff, said in an April 18 e-mail that if media were "overlooking" testimony about alleged abuse, the staff should give reporters court documents and "talk the issues over with them."
brooke@sltrib.com
“They found and “reasonable cause” to suspect that the children in this communal home had their welfare endangered. “
1. TX SC ruled it was many homes, not one.
2. TX SC ruled there was no “reasonable cause.”
Ready for round 233?
;)
The Texas SC found enough reasonable cause to impose continuing restrictions on the parents so to say they found NO reasonable cause is wrong.
I haven’t seen where they rules that it was many homes and not one. If you can site that point it would be valuable to the thread for sure. At any rate whether the “possible” danger was in one home or common across many homes the Texas SC still found that the reasonable cause was there to restrict the parents (including baring at least SOME of them from returning to the compound with their children). And the perception of a single home was evident in the actions taken by the CPS. So they were overruled. They submitted their findings to the court when called and the court made the necessary adjustments.
Not quite.
The TX SC did not impose continueing restrictions - they concurred with the 3rd TX CT of Appeals, that judge Walther could have imposed restrictions, as opposed to romoving the children.
They did, however, find thad she (Judge Walther), “had abused her judicial discretion” when she removed the children.
In Judge speek, they said she broke the law flagarantly.
If you read the 3rd CT opinion, they said the Ranch was not one home. The TX SC agreed - so you have to read both.
The TX SC did not bar anyone from returning to the ranch with the children - Judge Walther, after the TX SC slapped her down, barred ONE girl from returning to the ranch, as it appears she was actually raped by some old fart. She also issued a restraining order, that the old fart may not get anywhere near the ONE underage girl. First thing that Judge Walther did in this case, that was actually legal, and I support her on this one.
CPS perception that it was a single home was, in fact, ruled in error - the only court that agreed with them was Judge Walther, and - as I said - the TX SC has said she was full of it, when she did.
Irrelevant of which court brought the restrictions their ARE still restrictions. You are arguing with me about my response to someone who was arguing with me about ...etc etc etc...
The point is their is no constitutional crisis here.
The CPS workers determined certain things.
The first court concurred with all or virtually all of their findings.
Other courst (including the Texas SC) over ruled most of the first courts rulings.
The investigation continues and the are restrictions in place to protect the children (whether the ywil be successful or not nobody knows - as with many things in life).
It ain’t over and the fat lady hasn’t sung.
Me? I’m still glad the CPS acted, mistakes and all. They did their job and they did the vast majority of it right. I’m also glad the court system did and IS working out the issues.
“They did their job and they did the vast majority of it right”
I don’t think what you think I said is what I meant to say, so let me try again.
THE TX SC RULED THAT CPS, and Judge Walther, NOT ONLY GOT EVERY STEP WRONG, but that they also broke the law in doing so. They ruled that even the JUDGE broke the law.
So which part you think CPS, or the Judge, got right, is beyond me.
That’s not what the court ruled.
Which court, in which ruling? Link, please.
You link.
List every step and list where the SC ruled that that step was illegal. Show where the SC used the term “illegal” or “broke the law”.
Where ? I have seen no degree of toleration for child rape here on FR.
Sigh. The 3rd Circuit cout of appeals ruled that the jude “abused her discretion”, in their ruling. To you and me, that means, “broke the law.” I sat down with a Judge in VA last weekend, to confirm that - he said yep, that is exactly what it means.
The TX SC upheld - that means they concurred, she broke the law. The VA Judge also confirmed that ruling.
So, you need the TX SC majority opinion - I will get that for you, after this post - and you need the 3rd Circuit opinion. You go find that one.
That seems about right for an estimate of the number of threads on this case.
How are you and your family? Hope all is well.
I assume you saw the news on the Texas Gov. Mansion.
I read they have video of one of the perps, so far.
I’m leaning more towards a union contractor, as that seems to be one of their M.O.’s.
But, who knows. Could have been some adolescents who thought it would be funny to see firetrucks.
All is well, here - tornado last week lightlly grazed us in VA, the one today in NY missed our cabin. ;)
The mansion thing is sort of sad. What idiot would do that? Flippin’ jerk.
Hey, you got a ling to the 3rd CoA decision? I don’t have one handy.
In this case, the Department of Family and Protective Services presented evidence that “there was a danger to the physical health or safety” of pubescent girls on the Yearning for Zion (YFZ) Ranch from a pattern or practice of sexual abuse, that “the urgent need for protection required the immediate removal” of those girls, and that the Department made reasonable efforts, considering the obstacles to information-gathering that were presented, to prevent removal and return those children home. Tex. Fam. Code § 262.201(b)(1)–(3).
Wrong ruling.
abb, help me out, here - I need a link to the 3rd CoA decision.
1) I’m sorry your judge friend is wrong.
2) I’m not going to look for the 3 CT ruling. This is your trail of accusation and I am not doing your foot work. Besides, all you did on SC case is post what someone else had already posted earlier in the thread.
3) Again, there is no constitutional crisis to any of this. The system is working. It’s a long way from over.
Evidence presented in the trial court indicated that the Department began its investigation of the YFZ Ranch on March 29th, when it received a report of sexual abuse of a sixteen-year-old girl on the property. On April 3rd, the Department entered the Ranch along with law-enforcement personnel and conducted nineteen interviews of girls aged seventeen or under, as well as fifteen to twenty interviews of adults. In the course of these interviews, the Department learned there were many polygamist families living on the Ranch; a number of girls under the age of eighteen living on the Ranch were pregnant or had given birth; both interviewed girls and adults considered no age too young for a girl to be “spiritually” married; and the Ranch’s religious leader, “Uncle Merrill,” had the unilateral power to decide when and to whom they would be married. Additionally, in the trial court, the Department presented “Bishop’s Records” — documents seized from the Ranch — indicating the presence of several extremely young mothers or pregnant “wives”[1] on the Ranch: a sixteen-year-old “wife” with a child, a sixteen-year-old pregnant “wife,” two pregnant fifteen-year-old “wives,” and a thirteen-year-old who had conceived a child.
The testimony of Dr. William John Walsh, the families’ expert witness, confirmed that the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints accepts the age of “physical development” (that is, first menstruation) as the age of eligibility for “marriage.”
How LOW does that age go?
There is another thread on FR where a girl (not related to the FLDS case) was raped, and has consequently had a child.
Apparently, she had already had her first ‘menstruation’.
Right? Now, the girl is 10 years old.
According to the doctrines of Warren Jeffs, she would be good to go for a child-bride.
Therein lies the problem.
The LAW states a specific age, and the FLDS members don’t believe in the law, nor even know what the Law is.
I say that because they have even stated so publicly.
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