Reunited at last, FLDS families begin returning to Texas ranch

YFZ RANCH, Texas - Anne Sweeter Jessop puts her arms around her mother's neck and hangs on, her smile a Texas-mile wide. She is home. Her mother is here. So are her father and three brothers. And that is all this 3-year-old cares about.

This is a shocking video by a guy named Charles Walker who staged a one-man protest at one of the foster care dumping grounds for the FLDS kids. If you watch the whole thing, you will be shocked about the condition of this “compound”! For example, a pit bull running loose and a bunch of pills dumped by the side of the road. Also, he witnessed 4 ambulances in the night and it was not on the news. Charles is worried about the kids in there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KheY7IP0Y7s

Wouldn’t being “reassigned” to a different mother, or having your father expelled and being assigned to another father - with his other wives/your sister-mothers, or being forced to marry your cousin against your will....

Wouldn’t these be traumas also?

It seems it’s out of one trauma and back to another for these children perhaps.

Wouldn’t being “reassigned” to a different mother, or having your father expelled and being assigned to another father ... Wouldn’t these be traumas also?.

Do you have any evidence at all that any of those things happened to anyone at the FLDS ranch? .... Still shooting blanks?

I have proof that the CPS reassigned children to different mothers, expelled fathers and reassigned children to different fathers. Why don't you complain about what the CPS did?

There will never be another opportunity to investigate any claims among the FLDS, even if the evidence this time is overwhelmingly concrete and beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Where have you been? They have investigated for 4 years and have had 2 months with everyone in custody, where they interrogated them without benefit of legal defense. If they don't have concrete charges by now they never will (aside from income tax evasion charges).

Their sole remaining justification was that they found 31 underage girls who were either pregnant or had babies. Now they are only claiming that 5 of those 31 Mothers are just barely under that age of 18. The CPS has now effectively admitted that they kidnapped 26 women and falsely claimed that they were underaged mothers.

.... Still shooting blanks?

Luckily, some of us haven't been castrated.

Thanks for your reply:

>>>Do you have any evidence..

I think this concerns a primary difference in how different folks here view this case. If you think FLDS is just a religious commune with polygamy, then you react one way to the investigation. If, however, you believe a portion of the reports of investigators and people who have left the group, and the conviction of Jeffs was valid, then you see the case differently.

I suggest that anyone who wishes to know more read what has been reported by members, past and current. There is a great deal of information available from many sources, here’s short snippet that will give a brief look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1cTk2cJQac

I agree.

I don’t think those arguing for the FLDS here are defending such evil. I think they are unaware of it or just don’t believe.

And, as I said before this explains a primary difference in how different folks here view this case.

thanks for your reply.

There was a thread yesterday that brought up Sarah Barlow Draper.
Texas grand jury may be hearing evidence against polygamous sect (FLDS)"

I'll repeat what I posted on that thread. It all didn't happen at YFZ, but here goes:

Wasn't it a Sarah, wife #? of Dale Barlow, that they were originally looking for? If so, I can understand why the authorities took a special interest in her and asked for two forms of identification. But it was my understanding that each of the minors was assigned an attorney. Didn't she have one while she was still classified as a minor?

She was originally married to the first and only mayor of Colorado City, a man 40 years her senior, but when he got kicked out she was reassigned to another husband. The current guy's absence is very telling. Maybe life as Mrs Draper wasn't sweet. Anyway, it looks like she's getting her life together and I wish her well.

I wonder how she and the children felt when they were ripped from the arms of their real father, Dan Barlow, in 2004, on a whim of Warren Jeffs.

BTW, Dan Barlow, who is in his 70's, is illegally collecting social security benefits. His minor son, Gideon, is a "Lost Boy", yet dad claimed he still lives at home.

Another of Dan's sons, Dan, Jr., was charged with 14 counts of sexual abuse, accused of repeatedly molesting his five daughters, ages 12 to 19, over several years. He was allowed to plead guilty to a single, lesser charge of sexual abuse, and was sentenced to 120 days in jail — most of which was suspended. He served 13 days.

Dan's brother, Alvin, was the superintendent of the Colorado City Unified School District.

Of course we view it differently. Unlike you, we don't try and convict someone based on what their pastor says and does.

But it was my understanding that each of the minors was assigned an attorney. Didn't she have one while she was still classified as a minor?

Not until after she had been seized, stripped and interrogated for days.

Unless the police had a warrant for her arrest or witnessed her committing a crime, the police broke the law and should be charged and tried, the law is clear on that.

The rest of your post is relevant how? Do you think that it is OK to arrest someone based on what their Minister says or does? Have you ever read the constitution?

When the views and actions of said pastor are propagated across the congregation for the sole purpose of control and lust satiation, then we do have a problem....and an obligation to correct that problem.

Can you point to a law, that says that?

Too bad that we didn’t do so by focusing more on the male members of the sect who have so far kept themselves as far away from the reach of the law as possible.

You mean actually get a warrant and arrest the perps? What a novel idea! I wonder why obeying the constitution never occurred to the CPS and LEO's.

But that probably wouldn’t matter to you — you’re probably the type who’d “keep sweet”.

What do you mean by 'keep sweet'? I am all for enforcing the law, especially against pedophiles. I have a real problem though with LEO's claiming that a 37 year old women is a minor, so that they can prosecute someone for being a pedophile.

Thanks for your reply:

>>>we don’t try and convict someone based on what their pastor says and does

To me it has nothing to do with their religious beliefs, only their actions harming other human beings, particular those unable to defend themselves.

The pastor, rather Prophet, in this case is in prison for what he ordered done and personally assisted in, and he will soon be on trial for what he himself did to minor children, girls.

I think we would agree that this is right and just.

Where we might disagree is in that I believe the men, women and children of FLDS still are under his control, and because of this returning the children to that control constitutes endangerment.

I hope you will note that all the above has nothing to do with preaching or religion or beliefs - only with actions and criminal harm to others.

thanks again for your reply.

I think we would agree that this is right and just.

You won't hear a word of disagreement from me : )

Where we might disagree is in that I believe the men, women and children of FLDS still are under his control, and because of this returning the children to that control constitutes endangerment.

There are at least two problems with your reasoning. You may believe and a LEO may believe that there is a very good possibility that some of these FLDS girls at YFZ may in the future be abused. The problem is that it is against the law for a LEO to act on that belief. The LEO has to wait until after a law is broken before he can act.

Now there is an exception to that rule and that is if a systematic pattern of abuse can be shown and and imminent threat can be demonstrated. I think that the CPS and you can show a systematic pattern of abuse, in other States, but neither you nor the CPS can demonstrate an imminent threat. In fact the CPS failed to show any child abuse at all. At first they claimed 31 cases of underaged pregnant or underaged girls with babies, now they have been forced to admit that at least 26 of those women were adults and illegally held by the CPS. The 5 remaining cases are all almost 18 year old girls or older, they may not even be able to make a case for statutory rape.

The second problem is that you are trying to treat the group as if it were a single individual (guilt by association). The problem is that the FLDS have demonstrated that isn't the case. In fact the vast majority of the FLDS have not engaged in Child abuse. The proper way for the state to deal with this is for the state to identify and arrest the perps. Is it hard to do? Yes, but that is the proper way.

I have a theory that the FLDS at YFZ were handpicked and bait for the State of Texas. They knew that they would be investigated, so they were ready and waiting for the inevitable. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't do anything illegal at all there. They are playing the CPS and Texas LEO's like a fiddle.

Thanks for your reply. I think I can summarize my thinking in response pretty briefly. And it doesn’t require systematic abuse or guilt by association.

>>>The LEO has to wait until after a law is broken before he can act.

Child endangerment is against the law. If, for example, a mother willingly left her child in the care of a known pedophile, a good case for endangerment could be made.

Similarly, I believe a good case consists of:

-Warren Jeffs is convicted of accessory to rape of a minor. Part of his crime was ordering her marriage and ordering her consummation of that marriage.

-Jeffs is currently under indictment for sexual crimes against minors.

In his role as Prophet, Jeffs determines who marries whom, etc. etc. etc. (Children are considered as belonging to Jeffs.)

-Jeffs is still the leader of FLDS, controls its funds and regularly communicates with members and leaders of FLDS

Summarizing: If it could be shown that a parent would allow the rape of their minor child if so ordered by Jeffs (or anyone else for that matter), then a case for endangerment exists.

It’s important that all the above relates to the case for/against removing the children.

The criminal trials would similarly be specific instances of statutory rape.

thanks again for your courtesy and reply..

Child endangerment is against the law. If, for example, a mother willingly left her child in the care of a known pedophile, a good case for endangerment could be made.

Then why didn't the CPS make that case?

Summarizing: If it could be shown that a parent would allow the rape of their minor child if so ordered by Jeffs (or anyone else for that matter), then a case for endangerment exists.

That is a very tenuous proposition. You are stretching out the link to the pedophile through a third party, by claiming that the third party has no free will. The fallacy of your argument is clearly shown by the fact that many of the fathers and Mothers aren't returning with their children to YFZ.

It’s important that all the above relates to the case for/against removing the children.

I have clearly shown that your argument doesn't relate to the case. You have to do a lot better than try to associate people with an imprisoned pedophile. There is no such thing as guilt by association.

thanks again for your courtesy and reply..

I enjoy it too. I don't like being called a pedophile because I am trying to defend the constitutional rights of a pedophile.

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