Posted on 05/30/2008 6:40:22 PM PDT by Utah Girl
The devil was in the details.
Discussions about a proposed order involving the return of children taken from the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch broke down late this afternoon when attorneys for the families wanted to review proposed changes with their clients.
Judge Barbara Walther announced the attorneys had better get all of their clients' signatures before she would sign the agreement and abruptly left the bench late this afternoon.
A lawyer for the families, Laura Shockley, said she expected attorneys would return to an Austin appeals court Monday to push for an order returning the children. It was the 3rd Court of Appeals that said Walther should not have ordered the children to be removed from the ranch and warned that if Walther failed to act, they would do it for her.
Lawyers for the families said that an agreement had been tentatively reached with Child Protective Services when they walked into court earlier today. Walther, however, expressed concerns about the proposed agreement and called an hourlong recess. She then returned to the bench with her own proposed order.
That led to concerns from many family attorneys who raised objections and questions on behalf of their clients.
The judge added additional restrictions to the the agreement, including psychological evaluations and allowing CPS to do inspections at the children's home at any time. Several of the more than 100 attorneys in the courtroom and patched into the hearing through phone lines objected to the judge's additions.
"The court does not have the power, with all due respect, to enter any other order (other than vacating)," said Julie Balovich of the Texas RioGrande Legal Aid over the telephone. She argued that no evidence justifying the additional restrictions had been entered as evidence before the judge.
After reviewing the appellate court decision, Walther returned to the bench and announced she believed the Supreme Court's decision upholding the appellate court decision gave her the authority to impose whatever conditions she feels are necessary.
"The Supreme Court does say this court can place restrictions on the parents. I do not read that this decision says that this court is required to have another hearing to do that. You may interpret that however you choose."
With that, the judge abruptly left the bench, saying she would await any submitted orders.
Immediately, attorneys in the courtroom and over the phone, expressed confusion.
"What did she say?" one attorney asked.
"Do We have another hearing?"
"What did she order?"
No additional hearings are currently scheduled. The judge signed no orders that would allow for the release of any children.
Lawyers for CPS left the courthouse declining to speak about the hearing.
"I'm going to do what the court directed," said CPS attorney Gary Banks.
Arrest the rapist, not the child.
If the mothers aren't being accused of raping their own children physically, then they deserve to have their kids back.
If the dads are doing the raping, then arrest the dads.
PROTECT THE CHILDREN first, don’t send them back to a closed cult of child rapists.
Until all of the men provide DNA, I will assume that Warren Jeffs is the father of them all-—by rape.
That has been the MO of the FLDS for a century.
What a nightmare; some of those young girls are going back home to be raped and with their own mothers’ consent. Those who were trying to prevent this must be feeling ill.
My reading of the decision of the upper courts vacates the decision of this judge.
SOP for CPS has to stop... violating basic rights of American Citizens has to stop.
Dang! If only the Texas Appeals Court and Supreme Court knew what you two have shared. Did either of you think to file a friend of the court brief? Slackers!
Yeah? But its the mothers who will be permitting the children to have contact with the fathers immediately upon return.
You are presuming guilt first instead of innocence, the opposite of U.S. law.
That's a problematic position.
Yep, her only time in the spotlight and she went down in flames. She wants someone to pay. These family law judges often have tremendous egos because there is generally no right to jury trial in these types of cases, thus she becomes the sole "decider" (in Pres. Bushes words) and that is an incredible amount of power.
Should those U.S. citizens be presumed guilty or innocent?
If the mothers and grandmothers were brainwashed from the cradle to accept ritual child rape, they are incapable of defending their own children from subsequent ritual child rape.
This is multigeneraional, so normal cultural norms don’t apply.
If mothers and grandmothers in Texas (also brainwashed from the cradle, as they are in parts of Africa and the ME) were holding little girls down for ritual genital mutilation/clitorectomy, would you support their right as mothers to do so? Because it was “a family thing” for them to do so? Because they “chose” this for their little girls?
How is it different if we as a nation have allowed a multi-generational cult of child rapists to take root among us?
Will you support the “right” of brainwashed from birth moms and grandmoms to lead their daughters to the ritual rape bed, to be deflowered by 50 year old men selectted by their “prophet?”
Open your eyes! A multi-generational cult of brainwashing and child raping is not like a family law case down your block!
Do you even understand what real evidence is?
I am so happy to see so many here support civil rights and the rule of law over the vigilantes here on these threads.
Shame on you. Bring true evidence to a court of law.. let these people put on their defense and then have a true judgment of the facts.
That has NOT happened here.
Pictures of Jeffs that have nothing to do with these individual cases are not REAL evidence.
Go take your matches and burn down something in effigy if you must. Witch burning is not allowed in the USA.
You are presuming the entire sect guilty without so much as a trial, and condoning taking children away from their mothers even though the Texas Supreme Court ordered otherwise.
Those are problematic positions to take, even if you have "good intentions" for the kids.
No one said what Jeffs did was right... what does that have to do with each INDIVIDUAL case before the court?
You want to condemn people ‘en masse’ for the sins of others.
First of all, don't call me "woman". Only my husband is allowed that privilage. (And he better be smiling when he says it.) Secondly, CPS has yet to produce one raped child. If they had one, you can bet your right eye that they'd have let the planet know about it.
Look, I'm all about investigating this cult and making sure the kids are not being abused. But constitutional law is there to protect all of us. You start ripping away a little corner for a special situation and the whole thing *will* deteriorate fast. That piece of paper is all that stands between us and fascism. We MUST respect it and we MUST insist that our representatives do to. If we don't, the dream really will be over.
Have an investigation. Heck, keep the kids who are deemed to be in danger (11 to their 17th birthday). But do it lawfully.
Is Texas proud of this style of “Justice” or are they just going to go ahead and continue to trash the constitution.
Every single one of you pervs who love to post this photo are guilty of the same thing Jeffs is guilty of. Each time you post this vile crap you molest that child. Shame on you.
Bring evidence to prove that THESE parents molested THESE children. Quit trying to cross pollinate evidence of the guilt of another to convict someone else. Even the prosecutors have not been successful at this. They release this propaganda to the media, they dare not to the court they know it has no relevance to these cases.
We have a system of justice that preserves liberty in this country. You should have respect for that. Your own life and your own family may depend on that one day.
Please post the evidence that this has happened.
Hard cases make bad law. I don't think the legislature ever dreamed that a cult of brainwahsed child molesters and child molesting enablers would set up a fortress on a ranch in Texas where children would be used as chattel in a sex trade involving middle aged men posing as prophets and apostles of God.
The judge's ruling that the parents must first sign the order is quite reasonable under the circumstances. God knows who these kids parents are. God knows what will happen to these children after they are released back into this child molesting cult.
Yeah these people have their constitutional rights, but endangering children is not one of them.
This whole episode makes me sick.
How vile. You accuse those here who are decent people of condoning child rape, yet no evidence has been presented proving child rape in this case. Those here who are demanding due process be served are truly “great Americans”. They respect our Constitution and the rule of law. Something you are sadly opposed to.
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