Yes. After all they're the ones with the tank Fully Tracked Armored Combat Vehicle®.
Posted on 05/30/2008 6:40:22 PM PDT by Utah Girl
The devil was in the details.
Discussions about a proposed order involving the return of children taken from the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch broke down late this afternoon when attorneys for the families wanted to review proposed changes with their clients.
Judge Barbara Walther announced the attorneys had better get all of their clients' signatures before she would sign the agreement and abruptly left the bench late this afternoon.
A lawyer for the families, Laura Shockley, said she expected attorneys would return to an Austin appeals court Monday to push for an order returning the children. It was the 3rd Court of Appeals that said Walther should not have ordered the children to be removed from the ranch and warned that if Walther failed to act, they would do it for her.
Lawyers for the families said that an agreement had been tentatively reached with Child Protective Services when they walked into court earlier today. Walther, however, expressed concerns about the proposed agreement and called an hourlong recess. She then returned to the bench with her own proposed order.
That led to concerns from many family attorneys who raised objections and questions on behalf of their clients.
The judge added additional restrictions to the the agreement, including psychological evaluations and allowing CPS to do inspections at the children's home at any time. Several of the more than 100 attorneys in the courtroom and patched into the hearing through phone lines objected to the judge's additions.
"The court does not have the power, with all due respect, to enter any other order (other than vacating)," said Julie Balovich of the Texas RioGrande Legal Aid over the telephone. She argued that no evidence justifying the additional restrictions had been entered as evidence before the judge.
After reviewing the appellate court decision, Walther returned to the bench and announced she believed the Supreme Court's decision upholding the appellate court decision gave her the authority to impose whatever conditions she feels are necessary.
"The Supreme Court does say this court can place restrictions on the parents. I do not read that this decision says that this court is required to have another hearing to do that. You may interpret that however you choose."
With that, the judge abruptly left the bench, saying she would await any submitted orders.
Immediately, attorneys in the courtroom and over the phone, expressed confusion.
"What did she say?" one attorney asked.
"Do We have another hearing?"
"What did she order?"
No additional hearings are currently scheduled. The judge signed no orders that would allow for the release of any children.
Lawyers for CPS left the courthouse declining to speak about the hearing.
"I'm going to do what the court directed," said CPS attorney Gary Banks.
This judge has been overruled. Now incensed, she is defying higher court orders to return the children to their parents and their homes. Once again, as from the getgo, she is the one who abuses children. Defiantly arrogant, she now uses these same children as pawns in her quest to prove herself the supreme overlord who knows what’s best for all.
Because not a shred of evidence has been entered into any Court in Texas or anywhere else that such acts have occured to THESE children.
Now if anyone can produce evidence that THESE men have 'raped' THESE children they should do so in front of a Grand Jury, indict them, try them, convict them, and then punish them according to Texas law.
But since that hasn't happened what we have here is a rogue Judge refusing to follow the orders of the Texas Supreme Court.
Now I don't know about you but I don't want Judges doing whatever they wish to kids that 2 Courts have already ruled she had ABSOLUTELY NO AUTHORITY to take in the first place.
I don't like these freaks any more than you do, Travis. But for the love of God the Rule of Law has to have primacy here or we are ALL well and truly f*****.
As far as that photo goes, Jeffs is already in prison and wil likely never see the light of day ever again. That picture has absolutely nothing to do with what's going on in Texas, or at least NO evidence has been submitted to ANY Court that it does.
If crimes have been committed then lets do things the RIGHT way so some actual convictions can be gotten.
But in the meantime the Rule of Law must win the day.
This Judge needs to be removed from the Bench and those children returned immediately.
L
“Anybody who wants to send these poor brainwashed from the crade children back to the FLDS is supporting child rape.”
Anyone who seeks to collectively punish an entire community, without due process protecting individual rights, is supporting socialism.
Period.
If any of these were my kids I'd be at the FBI office today and in Federal Court Monday claiming same.
Nothing simple about this. Complications are merely beginning.
Waterboards babies? I hope you have some evidence of that. Or is it just hyperbole?
There you go again.
Those ignore past history are doomed to repeat it's mistakes. It was indeed the founder of the Mormon Church Joseph Smith, who had an angel of the Lord appear to him. Smith was told of the scriptures written on gold plates. Which he dutifully dug up and read. (Manchester NY. 1823). Smith was canny enough to gain Political power. He became mayor of Nauvoo, Illinois. He overstepped his bounds. Dissident followers fomented violence against him. His death as a result.
Joseph (King) Strang led his flock to Beaver Island, Michigan in the 1850's. Strang gained election to the Michigan legislature, and Political power. His own dissident followers killed him.
Not to say that kind of violence would attend in Texas, but once into the fray of politics- watch out!
I believe those in Texas have already seen what kind of violence the government is capable of.
Yes. After all they're the ones with the tank Fully Tracked Armored Combat Vehicle®.
We have heard them all haven’t we? They pass off some of the most astounding assertions and feed off each other and claim it as facts.
Quote from this opinion.
While child protection officials may have feared that was the case, the raid illustrates the hazard of taking official action on the basis of feelings or suspicions rather than credible evidence.
Yes, indeed we all mourn that senseless tragedy. It is to be stated that four ATF agents were killed and 16 wounded. It still appears uncertain whether Koresh pulled a "Jim Jones" at Waco.
I have yet to see any definite evidence of deliberate ATF killing of children. Hopefully Koresh rots in hell- where he belongs.
It is a yard-dog M113 APC, without even a pintol-mounted M2.
It has about as much relationship to a tank as a rubber ducky to the QE2.
There are enough disturbing things about all this to go on, without resorting to complete silliness.
I've had several Japanese-American friends who grew up in places like Manzanar - "detention centers" in FDR talk.
None of them report anything such as you suggest.
Nonetheless:
Addressing possible fifth column activities in the Japanese American community was proper.
The manner of doing so, and the resulting loss of liberty and property experienced by that Japanese American community were NOT proper, were NOT just, and remain a blot on America's record.
History will not deal kindly with a community that allows mass detention of people based on 'good intentions' and ignorance.
And OBTW, nor is it an “Armored Combat Vehicle.”
ACV’s, like the russian BMP or the US Bradley, are designed to fight.
APC’s, on the other hand, are designed to carry troops somewhat near the fight, then hide.
You just read my mind.
That’s a matter of opinion. Here’s what the folks who originally owned and operated them say:
http://www.army.mil/factfiles/equipment/tracked/m113.html
Mission
Provide a highly mobile, survivable, and reliable tracked-vehicle platform that is able to keep pace with Abrams- and Bradley-equipped units and that is adaptable to a wide range of current and future battlefield tasks through the integration of specialized mission modules at minimum operational and support cost.
No on both counts.
What is happening here is this: The original court order granting temporary custody to CPS must be vacated. It will be replaced by a new order which restores the kids to the parents (or 'mothers', apparently) and this new order will contain provisions protecting the 'safety and welfare of the children'. The parties agreed to the terms of a new order, but the judge apparently wanted to add some additional restrictions.
It is up to the court, not the parites, to dictate the contents of the order, but there is a legal issue here as to how broad the court's discretion is to impose restrictions based on the evidence presented, which apparently wasn't much evidence, especially when you consider how the evidence relates to specific, individual children as opposed to the entire group.
Normally, these cases just involve one family. There is no precedent regarding how to deal with children coming from a large group home like this.
Here's what I think should happen: The trial court should sign an order complying with the SC decision and include whatever restrictions it thinks are necessary and proper. Then, the flds can appeal if it thinks the restrictions are unwarranted or beyond the power of the court, and they may well be proven correct (or maybe not). In either event, the kids are back with the moms and the SAPCR case proceeds on its long and winding road.
The larger question is, of course, do civilian law enforcement agencies require such equipment to do their jobs. Especially some pissant sheriff’s office in a county with 3,000 population. And should it be employed against people who have no history of violent activity?
I have serious issues with the militarization of civilian police.
Looks like a light passenger sport utility vehicle to me. /s
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