Posted on 05/26/2008 6:42:47 AM PDT by Dukes Travels
It’s not easy being Mormon. No cursing, no premarital sex, no Mountain Dew. Perpetual good neighbors, their religion – so inherent to their existence – is a mystery even to those of us who have grown up in predominantly Latter Day Saint communities. In fact, most people know Mormons as the demographic that keeps FamilyFlix in business, Chevy Suburbans on the road and children from divorced families feeling cheated.
Thus, it’s a shame that the one opportunity the country may have to get to know the faith is when political spin taints the message. The high hopes that the Mitt Romney campaign would serve as a vehicle to spread the awareness of the religion have been replaced by the effort to separate the Salt Lake City-based church from the Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints that have been making the news in Texas. The FLDS broke off from the central authority over 100 years ago.
(Excerpt) Read more at northstarwriters.com ...
Only if it's hot...which is fine cause hot Mountain Dew really really sucks
That's true, the FLDS lied to Sheriff Doran about the number of people living ar YFZ. From the Eldorado Success . . .
Texas law enforcement officers made entry on the YFZ Ranch Thursday, April 3, 2008 at the request of Texas Child Protective Services. The resulting raid spanned six days and ended with 416 children being removed from the ranch by CPS workers. Schleicher County Sheriff David Doran is the first law enforcement officer to speak at length about the raid. The following interview was conducted late Monday evening in his office at the Schleicher County Law Enforcement Center.
Randy Mankin: First of all, thank you for agreeing to this interview.
Sheriff Doran: You’re welcome. Remember I told you that you would be the first one I spoke with?
Mankin: Yes, and I appreciate it. I guess my first question is why now?
Doran: Well, there’s been a lot of speculation and some down right erroneous information bouncing around in the media. I checked with several of my law enforcement colleagues and we all agreed that the time was right to set the record straight...at least to the extent that we can. There’s still a lot that I cannot and will not comment on.
Mankin: Fair enough. Let’s start by talking about the four years leading up to the raid.
Doran: Well, you know what it was like when we first learned about the YFZ, the news media swarmed into town and the next thing I know I’m standing in front of a bunch of microphones and TV cameras. It was not easy.
Mankin: You’ve clearly gotten better at handling the media.
Doran: Only because I had to, but I still don’t enjoy it.
Mankin: You went to the YFZ Ranch that first day, didn’t you.
Doran: Yes, Chief Deputy Arispe and I went out there and told them that their cover story about being a hunting retreat had been exposed as a lie and that the national media was coming to town.
Mankin: Who did the people at the YFZ Ranch turn out to be?
Doran: They were members of the FLDS Church and followers of prophet Warren Jeffs.
Mankin: FLDS stands for?
Doran: Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints. They are an offshoot of the mainstream Mormon Church.
Mankin: And what is the primary difference between the FLDS Church and the LDS Mormons?
Doran: Polygamy. The FLDS church believes that plural marriage is fundamental to their faith and they refuse to compromise on it.
Mankin : How many times had you been on the Y F Z R a n c h over the past four years.
Doran:I don’t know exactly.... I’d just say that I’ve been there many times.
Mankin: What was the reason for all of those trips?
Doran: There was no one reason, but I’d say that my main goal was to develop an open dialog and a level of understanding. I wanted to be able to talk with them in case something happened.
Mankin: You mean something like what happened last week?
Doran: Yeah...that’s right.
Mankin: You also made a few trips out west didn’t you?
Doran: Yes, but before that Sheriff Kirk Smith of Washington County, Utah came here to brief me and bring us up to speed on his dealings with the FLDS community in Hildale, Utah and Colorado City, Arizona.
Doran: Well that’s what the town was originally called and that’s what the natives still call it. The place is really one town that sits on the Utah and Arizona border.
Mankin: How many trips did you make to Short Creek?
Doran: I don’t know, four or five, maybe six.
Mankin: And, what did you learn there?
Doran: I learned that in a lot of ways the people there are just like us. They love their families and they want to make their town a better place to live.
Mankin: Anything else?
Doran: Yes, I also learned that most of them are blindly loyal to their prophet, Warren Jeffs. But I did make a lot of contacts there, a few of which would be of great assistance.
Mankin: Warren Jeffs, now there’s a name we have all heard before.
Doran: We sure have. I think the whole world has heard of Warren Jeffs by now.
Mankin: Thinking back to when Warren Jeffs was on the run, you kept telling people he would be caught in a traffic stop.
Doran: And he was!
Mankin: You seem to enjoy that part.
Doran: It’s just that I was pressured by some people to stage a raid on the YFZ Ranch in order to apprehend him when I didn’t even know if he was there and had no probable cause to get a warrant.
Mankin: Okay, let’s talk for a minute about probable cause. What was it about the raid that started on April 3rd that was different?
Doran: Well, there was a call to a family shelter hotline that was referred to Child Protective Services.
Mankin: And, what was the nature of that call?
Doran: A 16-year-old girl called to say that she was at the YFZ Ranch and that she had been abused.
Mankin: Physical abuse, or sexual abuse?
Doran: She reported being physically abused, even to the point of needing medical treatment. And, I believe there was a second call from the girl.
Mankin: Didn’t she also claim to be the mother of an 8 month old baby?
Doran: I believe that to be the case. She also said she was pregnant again.
Mankin: Okay, if she was 16 and her birthday was in early January, as described in the warrant, calculating the age of her baby and an extra nine months for pregnancy, that would make her 14 at the time the baby was conceived.
Doran: Probably.
Mankin: Wouldn’t that also indicate that there had been sexual abuse of her as a child?
Doran: I can’t argue with that.
Mankin: So, that was enough probable cause?
Doran: The request from CPS was our probable cause, but we combined that with information that myself and others have gathered over the past four years. All of that went on the affidavit requesting a warrant.
Mankin: You mentioned information you and others have gathered. Would some of that information have come from the confidential informant that was mentioned in the affidavit.
Doran: That is correct.
Mankin: Okay, on the subject of the informant. There was a bit of controversy this week when ABC News and others reported that your informant was a person inside the YFZ Ranch. Was that actually the case?
Doran: Absolutely not! You saw the affidavit. You know it said the informant was a former member of the FLDS. You and I both know that they don’t allow former members at the YFZ.
Mankin: Let me get this straight then...when the warrant was issued, the informant had never been at the YFZ Ranch?
Doran: That’s correct! To get a warrant, it takes a complaint from a victim or first hand knowledge of a crime. The informant provided an abundance of good information, but none of it was based on first hand knowledge and therefore it wasn’t enough to go to a judge with and seek a warrant.
Mankin: So the call from the 16- year-old girl was essential?
Doran: The request from CPS was essential. I suppose her call was essential to them.
Mankin: So, how long from the time you got word that CPS was asking for help until the time you surrounded the YFZ Ranch.
Doran: About three days.
Mankin: That’s a big operation to put together in three days, surely law enforcement must have had a preliminary plan in place ready to deal with this kind of eventuality?
Doran: Let’s just say that law enforcement was and is prepared to answer a cry for help at the YFZ Ranch.
Mankin: The fact that the call to assist CPS occurred at the YFZ really complicated things, didn’t it?
Doran: It surely did.
Mankin: So, walk me through the way an ordinary CPS call goes.
Doran: Well, we roll up to the house, knock on the door and escort CPS inside to check on the welfare of children.
Mankin: It didn’t work that way this time.
Doran: No, it couldn’t work that way because the people at the YFZ didn’t want to cooperate.
Mankin: Okay, let’s talk about that. How did the first contact go?
Doran: Well, we rolled up to the gate just as the perimeter was being sealed around the ranch and the roads leading to the property were being blocked.
Mankin: You say we rolled up, who is we?
Doran: Ranger Captain Barry Caver, myself and another Texas Ranger.
Mankin: What happened next.
Doran: Fairly soon I received a call on my cell phone from Merrill Jessop.
Mankin: Merrill Jessop is the overseer at the YFZ Ranch?
Doran: That’s a good word, overseer.
Mankin: What did he say?
Doran: He was out of town, and someone from inside the ranch had called to alert him to our presence. He knew about our perimeter and the fact that we were waiting at the gate.
Mankin: What did you tell Mr. Jessop?
Doran: I told him to get a couple of men with authority to come to the gate. They did, but they still delayed us an hour and a half before they let us in.
Mankin: You didn’t force the issue?
Doran: There was no need to force the issue, they weren’t going anywhere. Why take the risk of getting somebody hurt?
Mankin: You told me one time that if such a day ever came you hoped to talk your way into the ranch, talk your way through it and talk your way out.
Doran: And, that’s exactly how it happened. We kept in mind the difference in cultures and the fact that they put great store in the ranch being a sacred place. Talking made more sense that anything else. And, when you’ve got a few Texas Rangers around, people tend to listen a little more closely.
Mankin: So, they finally let you in the gate. How many went in?
Doran: I’m not exactly sure how many law enforcement officers, let’s just say a handful, and some CPS investigators.
Mankin: What happened then?
Doran: We asked to see the girl who called for help, but they wouldn’t produce her.
Mankin: At this time you were working under the original search warrant. What was the scope of that warrant?
Doran: You’ve seen it. We were basically directed to search anywhere and everywhere in order to find the girl and put her in touch with CPS.
Mankin: At some point, the warrant was amended.
Doran: Actually, Judge Walther issued a second warrant.
Mankin: Judge Barbara Walther?
Doran: Yes, Judge Barbara Walther. She issued the original warrant and issued the second one expanding the search to include looking for evidence of other crimes.
Mankin: What prompted the new warrant?
Doran: Let’s just say when we got in there law enforcement officers and CPS investigators witnessed evidence of other crimes.
Mankin: CPS has reportedly identified a number of pregnant young girls, or young girls with babies. Would that be the evidence of other crimes you are referring to?
Doran: Well....I’m going to leave that question for CPS to answer.
Mankin: Fair enough. So, a new warrant was issued and the search is going house to house?
Doran: Let’s say building to building, methodically, building to building.
Mankin: At some point it was decided to put the children on a bus and send them to Eldorado.
Doran: CPS needed a neutral site where they could interview the children...a nearby site that could be secured.
Mankin: Were the adults at the YFZ Ranch being cooperative.
Doran: They were never cooperative. They were accommodating, but not cooperative.
Mankin: Was it that way the entire time?
Doran: I’d say that the longer it went the less cooperation we received.
Mankin: We’ve heard from people at the YFZ, particularly the women, that law enforcement officers tore babies from their mothers’ arms.
Doran: It never happened.
Mankin: You know that for a fact?
Doran: I know it for a fact. At one point, when it appeared we were going to have some trouble, I called Merrill Jessop from my cell phone. I put him on speaker phone and he told the women to cooperate. He said it several times.
Mankin: How did that work?
Doran: It worked well. The women’s mood changed immediately and they handed over the children.
Mankin: So, 416 children in all, were you expecting that many?
Doran: No, I wasn’t. Merrill had told me there were about 120 people on the compound, but he told me lots of things and now I know that very little of it was true.
Mankin: Okay, let’s talk about the temple. Law enforcement officers entered it using a S.W.A.T. team from Midland, is that right?
Doran: That is correct, but only because they refused to unlock the doors and cooperate with a legal search warrant. We even tried to have a locksmith open them, but to no avail.
Mankin: I heard that the jaws of life were used to pry open the doors...any truth to that?
Doran: Let’s just say we used the appropriate tools for the job.
Mankin: I understand one man was arrested for interfering with lawmen as they attempted to enter the temple.
Doran: That is my understanding.
Mankin: Levi Jeffs, the son of Warren Jeffs was booked into your jail and charged with interfering with the duties of a public servant.
Doran: Yes he was. But, I didn’t witness the incident at the temple. I have heard the same reports, but I didn’t personally see it.
Mankin: Was Levi Jeffs the only one arrested?
Doran: My understanding is he was the only one arrested at the temple. Another man was arrested later.
Mankin: Leroy Johnson Steed was arrested and booked into jail for tampering or fabricating evidence with intent to impair.
Doran: That’s right.
Mankin: We’ve heard that he was caught trying to hide children.
Doran: I’ll refer you to the District Attorney on that one.
Mankin: All right. Can we talk about what you found in the temple?
Doran: I’d rather not.
Mankin: It’s been reported that a bed was found on the top floor of the temple and there have been implications that it might have been used for consummating marriages moments after the ceremony.
Doran: I wouldn’t know about that.
Mankin: Actually, I heard a couple of reports that there were two beds found. Is that accurate?
Doran: I’d say that was an accurate statement.
Mankin: So, the search moved on to the building called the temple annex?
Doran: It did.
Mankin: We’ve heard that there was a bank vault in the annex and that lawmen had to use jackhammers to open it.
Doran: I’ll only say that there was a vault and the locksmiths’ couldn’t open it.
Mankin: Did you gain entry to the vault with the jack hammers?
Doran: We gained entry using the appropriate tools for the job. Let’s just leave it at that.
Mankin: Any idea what the FBI wanted when they finally arrived at the YFZ Ranch?
Doran: No. They had their own search warrant and I’m not privy to that information. You’ll have to ask them.
Mankin: Okay, we’ve heard a lot of speculation through the years that there is a crematorium at the temple. Did you find an incinerator or a crematorium?
Doran: No. Not at the temple, not anywhere.
Mankin: Any tunnels?
Doran: No...no tunnels.
Mankin: All right, how about weapons? Did you find any weapons?
Doran: Yes, we located some weapons, but none that were illegal.
Mankin: What about the documents seized?
Doran: I wasn’t on the evidence gathering team so I don’t know much about that...and I probably couldn’t comment if I did know.
Mankin: All right, I said this would be about the raid, but I have to ask about Dale Evans Barlow. There was a warrant listing him as the man who allegedly abused the 16-year-old girl. Apparently neither he nor the girl can be found. Any comment?
Doran: You’ll need to ask CPS about the girl.
Mankin: CPS seems to be convinced that they have the original complainant among a group of young girls who are pregnant, and otherwise meet the description.
Doran: There again, you need to check with CPS about that.
Mankin: And, Mr. Barlow?
Doran: As for Mr. Barlow, I cannot comment except to say that Barlow is a common name in this group. Who is to say the hotline operator heard the first name correctly. I have faith that the investigators will sort it all out.
Mankin: Okay, there’s just one more thing. Waco. I know it had to weigh heavily on your mind when this first started. How much of a role did Waco play in the way all of this turned out.
Doran: It played a huge role in the sense that everyone I know in Texas law enforcement is determined to make sure something like that never happens again. That’s why I prefer talking. There’s always more time to talk and the longer you talk the greater the chance you can work things out. It’s when you stop talking that things can go wrong.
Mankin: Thank you, for the time. I know how busy you’ve been and I know the news media is driving you crazy.
Doran: Well, they are out of luck. This is the last word I’m going to have on the subject for the next several days. I wanted our hometown folks to hear the truth as I know it, to the extent that I can say. Maybe we can say more later.
I wonder what the Feds were looking for.
Virgie, thank you for fulfilling prophesy. You know Joseph Smith’s name for evil. I know the name of the Prophet Joseph Smith for good.
Thank you
a lot of information there
in the morning I will reread and think some on it
Let me pile some more on you . . .
Here’s the interview with the Texas Ranger who was in charge of the operation:
Part 1: http://www.cbs7.com/news/details.asp?ID=5892
Part 2: http://www.cbs7kosa.com/news/details.asp?ID=5890
And which good was that? Polygamy or Polyandry?
Did you ever get around to reading the Primer and finding out what the FLDS and similar Fundamentalist Mormon sects are all about?
I think you miss the point. When Smith was alive, polygamy was an accepted practice of the church. Mormons believed God ordained it. They also believe God changed that ordination and said to stop doing it. But it didn’t mean the previous polygamists were wrong. It’s kinda the whole point of being a Latter Day Saint. God can change things.
“For the FLDS its Breed’em Young. “
Got a question for you, JRochelle: How old was Mary when she gave birth to the Savior of the world?
Hi, Virgie. I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I love my Savior, Jesus Christ, who suffered and died for me. Me, of all people. Me, a Mormon.
Here is the official word from my Church on the FLDS matter:
http://www.newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/clarifying-polygamy-confusion
Of course you can say it’s all lies. It’s a free country.
“I do not approve of illegal behavior by flds nor by the state.”
Exactly right.
“How old was Mary when she gave birth to the Savior of the world?”
I know the answer!!
We don’t know.
Slight correction: that's the CPS version of what was done here, and for it they received a well-deserved smack down from the Appellate Court. The definition of "household" in the Texas Family Code is "a dwelling". I guess the Appellate Court must think that the Texas CPS doesn't just get to make up a new legal definition of "household" whenever they feel like it just to suit their own purposes.
And CPS isn't supposed to legally get custody of all children in a household unless they can PROVE within 14 days by a preponderance of individualized evidence that each child was in imminent physical danger, and that the CPS make reasonable efforts to prevent removal of each child from the household. Otherwise, they shall [it's mandatory] return each child to the household.
None of that happened here, either.
How many times do you need to be told these things?
Cordially,
I don’t know. If you have a Bible verse that says how old she was, I’d like to know which one.
this above is about half way down.
If they used a story from cps as probable cause I am not sure that is legal under the US or Texas Constitution.
Apparently the info he and others had were not enough to get a warrant but the word of cps was.
If a lot of the info that came out of the raid is any indication of the accuracy of the info he and others had is not looking good for anything positive to come out of this.
Mankin: Okay, on the subject of the informant. There was a bit of controversy this week when ABC News and others reported that your informant was a person inside the YFZ Ranch. Was that actually the case?
Doran: Absolutely not! You saw the affidavit. You know it said the informant was a former member of the FLDS. You and I both know that they don’t allow former members at the YFZ.
Mankin: Let me get this straight then...when the warrant was issued, the informant had never been at the YFZ Ranch?
Doran: That’s correct! To get a warrant, it takes a complaint from a victim or first hand knowledge of a crime. The informant provided an abundance of good information, but none of it was based on first hand knowledge and therefore it wasn’t enough to go to a judge with and seek a warrant.
So his informant was Xmember who had never been on the ranch no wonder this is snarled up and if it goes to a criminal trial it will get worse. An informany never been on ranch i do not belive could be a witness of any acount.
Doran: No. Not at the temple, not anywhere.
Ok so the story of the crematorium was also a false story.
All the posts about destroying evidence of dead babies and such.
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