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No charges for 2 Marines accused in Afghan deaths
AP on Yahoo ^ | 5/23/08 | Estes Thompson - ap

Posted on 05/23/2008 11:08:44 AM PDT by NormsRevenge

RALEIGH , N.C. - A Marine Corps general says two officers whose unit was accused of killing up to 19 Afghan civilians in 2007 will not face criminal charges.

The Marines said Friday that Lt. General Samuel Helland made the decision not to bring charges after reviewing the findings of a special tribunal that heard more than three weeks of testimony in January.

The tribunal investigated allegations that as many as 19 Afghan civilians died when a unit of Marines special operations troops opened fire after a car bomb targeted their convoy in March 2007.

It was the first time in more than 50 years the Marines empaneled a Court of Inquiry. It only considered the actions of two officers: company commander Maj. Fred C. Galvin and platoon leader Capt. Vincent J. Noble.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: accused; afghan; marines; nocharges
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1 posted on 05/23/2008 11:09:12 AM PDT by NormsRevenge
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To: NormsRevenge

Good news indeed; these cases continue to to the right direction. Have a great weekend Marines.


2 posted on 05/23/2008 11:11:38 AM PDT by SF Republican
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To: NormsRevenge; freema; RedRover

Bump and Ping!


3 posted on 05/23/2008 11:12:55 AM PDT by jazusamo (DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
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To: NormsRevenge
Lt. General Samuel Helland made the decision not to bring charges

Ya he's a lil busy with some other Marines.

4 posted on 05/23/2008 11:17:50 AM PDT by lilycicero (defendourmarines.org)
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To: NormsRevenge; SandRat

News we can use!


5 posted on 05/23/2008 11:19:13 AM PDT by Uriah_lost (Do you have your "bug out" plan ready?)
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To: NormsRevenge

We have too many lawyers in all branches of the officer’s corps. They need to riffed or assigned to combat, boots on the ground duties. Preferably subordinate to PFC’s.


6 posted on 05/23/2008 11:19:30 AM PDT by Parmy
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To: Parmy

Lawyers don’t bring charges, commanders do. Lawyers don’t direct that investigations be opened, commanders do. Lawyers don’t convene courts-martial, commanders do. Ask any - and I mean virtually ANY - senior commander and he/she will tell you the JAG is on their speed-dial at #1 or 2. And not just for military justice matters - for ops law, acquisitions, claims, civil law opinions, general officership and leadership advice. In the Air Force, JAGs are line officers, not staff or a separate Corps in the classic sense. The reason we have a separate JAG promotion board process is that we regularly whipped the snot out of the operators, not that we couldn’t compete.

Colonel, USAFR, TJAGCR


7 posted on 05/23/2008 11:35:08 AM PDT by jagusafr ("Bugs, Mr. Rico! Zillions of 'em!" - Robert Heinlein)
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To: jagusafr
Question: Why do commanders bring charges, especially against their troops who are doing their jobs and the missions handed to them? It's a CYA syndrome due to inane regulations handed down to them by whom and advised by what.

No one knows how many casualties are due to these inane regulations. The fact that there are not more is do to the ingenuity of the 'boots-on-the-ground. Do you think that Patton, Montgomery, Halsey or any of the rest would have put up with the stupid 'rules of engagement' that our 'boots-on-the-ground have to abide by.

This same inaneness was rampant back in '68 and '69 when a patrol had to put the 60 gunner on point because it was the only weapon that was authorized to be lock-and-loaded. The M-16's weren't supposed to have a round in the chamber because somehow that would offend the enemy.

8 posted on 05/23/2008 12:13:11 PM PDT by Parmy
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To: NormsRevenge

Great news, Norm! Bet some Army commanders are grousing up a storm. This decision also preserves the Marine Special Unit concept that was brought under a cloud.


9 posted on 05/23/2008 12:26:10 PM PDT by RedRover (DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
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To: Parmy

Believe me, I understand the frustration of having to say “Mother, may I?” before doing your job as a military member. Lt Col David “Bo” Bolgiano has a great book called, “Combat Self Defense” that addresses stupid and counterproductive ROE and RUF imposed by CYA commanders. However, the commanders also have a point: they bend over backward to keep the troops from being criticized, then get criticized for bending over backward. My thought is that too many people overanalyze what might happen and try to make war safe. It ain’t safe, and never will be.

Last point: people criticize our military for obeying the Geneva and Hague Conventions, and point out that the enemy doesn’t. The question is what our motivation is - it’s not to keep from getting sued, it’s because we (the US) agreed to do so, and we keep our word.

Colonel, USAFR


10 posted on 05/23/2008 1:30:00 PM PDT by jagusafr ("Bugs, Mr. Rico! Zillions of 'em!" - Robert Heinlein)
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To: jagusafr
There's an old adage: I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Bottom line time. When you are dead, your word is of no significance. Especially when the enemy has no word and has no intention of 'playing fair' or keeping theirs if they even give it.

The writings of their 'prophet' state that giving your word to or honoring an agreement made to an infidel is not necessary because an infidel isn't a person anyway.

The point is this. It takes two, in good faith, to make an agreement. If one party does not act in good faith (has no intention of keeping agreements like Arafat did numersous times), then in reality there is no agreement.

I submit to you that the Geneva and Hague Conventions apply to what might be termed 'normal warfare'? What we are engaged in at this time is not 'normal warfare'. You might harken back to 9/11/2001. Was that 'normal warfare'?

In my opinion, your argument defending our motivation because we keep our word is specious. Why? Because it doesn't address the reality of war. And it doesn't address the mentality of the enemy. But it certainly says something about the mentality of our commanders and today's military institutional mentality.

Needless to say, it isn't good or pretty. And that mentality needs to be vigorously stamped out.

11 posted on 05/23/2008 2:08:49 PM PDT by Parmy
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To: RedRover; freema; NormsRevenge

I’ve done a little checking on the LtGen Frank Kearney IG investigation and can’t find a word on it since it was announced last December. I doubt the general is overjoyed about no charges being filed, wonder if retirement has crossed his mind.


12 posted on 05/23/2008 2:47:49 PM PDT by jazusamo (DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
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To: jazusamo

Isn’t the promotion list for generals coming out soon? Be interesting to see if he’s rising.


13 posted on 05/23/2008 2:55:29 PM PDT by RedRover (DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
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To: RedRover

I don’t know about the list but I believe he was just promoted to three star about a year ago so I wouldn’t think he’d be up for another one now. After the two boners he’s pulled he should be demoted. :)


14 posted on 05/23/2008 2:59:59 PM PDT by jazusamo (DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
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To: jazusamo; Mr Rogers; 1stbn27; 2111USMC; 2nd Bn, 11th Mar; 68 grunt; A.A. Cunningham; ASOC; ...

More here:
http://www.jdnews.com/articles/acted_56728___article.html/appropriately_helland.html


15 posted on 05/23/2008 4:21:10 PM PDT by freema (Proud Marine Niece, Daughter, Wife, Friend, Sister, Cousin, Mom and FRiend)
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To: freema; Parmy; RedRover; jazusamo; xzins; Girlene; darrylsharratt; Shelayne; Lancey Howard; ...
Y'all beat me to it, 'Ma -- thanks for the link.

During the three-and-a-half week court of inquiry, two colonels and a lieutenant colonel heard from more than 45 witnesses and examined more than 12,000 pages of documents about what happened March 4 and 9.

The only valid info was for the March 4 incident; the March 9 was held under Classified restriction. I hope Helland takes good note of this and Folsom's reports, and puts an end to these political rampages.

Parmy -- good synopsis, thank you. [#11]

16 posted on 05/23/2008 4:49:16 PM PDT by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: jazusamo

It’s awful quiet out there, isn’t it.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1900197/posts
http://www.opinioneditorials.com/guestcontributors/cmuth_20070922.html


17 posted on 05/23/2008 4:51:00 PM PDT by freema (Proud Marine Niece, Daughter, Wife, Friend, Sister, Cousin, Mom and FRiend)
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To: freema

Yes it is, Ma. Hopefully it’s the lull before the storm, the good general more than deserves a storm.

Good for Muth, he tells it like it is. I hadn’t seen that piece by him, thanks for linking it.


18 posted on 05/23/2008 4:59:39 PM PDT by jazusamo (DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
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To: brityank

Thank you! I have kept that in my head for over 34 years.


19 posted on 05/23/2008 5:02:17 PM PDT by Parmy
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To: NormsRevenge

Definitely good news. Let’s pray that this “good news” syndrome keeps on “going, and going, and going.”


20 posted on 05/23/2008 5:04:57 PM PDT by Semper Fi Mom (Mother of a Marine and proud of it!)
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