Is the US ignoring a fuel alternative?

Boston Globe ^ | 5-23-08 | Clifford Atiyeh

[NoLibZone]

Europeans can buy cars that run on natural gas from at least eight automakers, but despite large reserves of the relatively inexpensive fuel in the United States, the federal government and states, including Massachusetts, are backing pricier biofuels as a way to lessen dependence on imported oil.

[MrEdd]

Yes, and yes

[tobyhill]

I’m one of those. I’ve tried to overcome these thoughts but just can’t. I’ve always believed that if you take something without replacement nothing will replace what you took.

[70th Division]

There was a company in Lansing MI that used LP in all their pickups. They tore one down after 300K miles and the engine was clean as a whistle. No corrosion with LP. Just a thought.

[RegulatorCountry]

Honda offered (and may still offer) a Civic that runs on natural gas. There may be geographic restrictions on availability. It required a home unit called a “Phil” I think, that could be mounted on the wall of your garage and connected to your home gas line.

[Axenolith]

And a sentence fragment: Range and energy per unit of mass...

[mysterio]

As gasoline prices in Massachusetts near $4 a gallon and diesel is already above that level, the equivalent of a gallon of natural gas averages about $2.69.

And that's BEFORE a lot of people start running cars on it. Which means you can at least double that price. And here's the kicker : not only would you be paying more for NG than gasoline, but also your heating bill would skyrocket.

No thanks. In my opinion, we should even stop making electricity with the stuff and switch to nuclear and coal. Then we wouldn't have to bailout working Americans every year with heating subsidies.

[janetjanet998]

Check out these microturbines that have many uses...now being used in hybrid buses

http://www.youtube.com/Microturbine

[RegulatorCountry]

They still offer it, the Civic GX, base retail price $24,500, with the “Phil” unit costing around $800.00 extra, plus installation.

[NeoCaveman]

If you really want to drive on nat gas you got to do these things first:

Build lots of nuke plants

Stop using nat gas for electricity and heating. Use nuke powered electricity for heating and lighting.

Then you can drive on nat gas without causing the price to double or triple.

[lucysmom]

We could seriously reduce our reliance on foreign oil if we mandated that no electricity be generated from nat gas plants. Currently 25% of our electicity is generated that way.

Or we could demand the 35 trillion cubic feet North Slope natural gas reserve be developed.

The oil pipeline built in the 1970s to move crude from the frozen North Slope to tankers in the port in Valdez was supposed to be followed by a second pipeline to tap into the state’s other energy treasury – a vast natural gas reserve.

Yet again and again, the project to carry natural gas through Canada to markets in the Lower 48 has been delayed. The stalemate leaves at least 35 trillion cubic feet of identified gas reserves trapped beneath the North Slope -- about 50 percent more than the United States uses in a year. It also deprives Alaskans of new construction jobs, extra state government revenue and growth in the savings account -- known as the Alaska Permanent Fund – that will issue $845 dividend checks to every state resident on Oct. 12.

The lease holding oil companies have been stalling development for 30 years.

Some impatient Alaskans, including former Republican Gov. Wally Hickel, President Nixon's first secretary of the Interior Department, say that the state should take back the oil leases if necessary. "We've had gas sitting up there for 30 years," Hickel said. "And so what we have to do is say, 'Wait a minute, now you just can't do that forever.'"

http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=58284

It ain't all the "envirowakco.marxist Branch Algorians"

[hermgem]

But despite large reserves of the relatively inexpensive fuel in the United States...
Since when does the media accept the fact that there are large reserves of inexpensive fuel in this country?
Problem is, this existence of large reserves is under lock, stock and barrel for 30 years by the Dem guardians sitting in Congress.
To keep fuel prices sky high for these uninformed innocents the end user, who are made to suffer from food price explosions, gasoline pricing and are forced into bearing the consequences of a shrinking employment situation.
Except of course for public servants who are graded not by performances but seniority, as well as those doing global warming research under the umbrella of a tax exempt status.
Free enterprise is for the average Joe, but coddled protection for these insiders on the public payroll and subsequently their ongoing efforts to protect others from global warming and keep their golden warming goose laying those eggs.

[JimBianchi11]

In the 1990s I was stationed at Tinker AFB in OKC. We had the largest fleet on NG vehicles in the US (1,100+ vehicles). They sucked.

Bad in the cold, bad acceleration, stalling, really poor milage, dangerous to refuel because the stuff was under very high pressure and the hose could really hurt you if it wasn’t connected correctly.

They only reason the AF did not ditch the whole program is that as part of the agreememnt to test these vehicles, the whole fleet got free fuel. So for 5 years Tinker had almost no fuel cost, except for a few hunderd unleaded and diesel vehicles.

In 1999 (my last year there) the agreement was up for renewal and the fuel was going to cost us nearly what gas does, when I left they were cutting the fleet WAY back because it just didn’t make sense to pay so much for a bad fuel.

[chuckles]

LP is about the same as gasoline in price and has less BTU's. CNG is at high pressures and I'm not sure I would be comfortable with it in a tank in a crash. LP is around 250psi and CNG is in the thousands of psi in the tank.

I know my in laws just paid close to $4 a gallon to fill their LP tank. LP burns good, and is good for air quality, but no advantage in cost. Many fork lifts use LP and operate indoors it burns so clean.

[saganite]

Farmers where I was raised used butane in their tractors and trucks back in the 60’s so it’s not a new idea. If you can provide your own storage it might be a useful alternative.

[saganite]

Sounds like you’re in favor of pliticians interfering in how the market allocates natural gas to support a pet theory? Am I right?

[milwguy]

Actually I am in favor of the market working, but we do not have an open market right now. I would rather we open ALL our reserves to coal. gas , and oil exploration. The enviro wackos will stop that. If we do not act soon, we will have sold our future to our enemies and we all better start studying the Koran. The quickest way I see to significantly lower oil imports is the way I propose. Time is of the essence here, and using nat gas to reduce gasoline demand is the fastest way I see to making that happen. Ethanol is a joke, does nothing to reduce energy demand and probably uses as much energy as it creates.

[taildragger]

Propane/CNG/LPG are a big part of the solution, go ask T. Boone Pickens even though he has a horse in that race.

Imagine a "Chevy Volt" that runs exclusively on Gaseous Fuels that are filled at home via this device:

Just think of it, a Series Hybrid that is off the "Refinery" backlog. Lots of Nuke-Plants would help as well.

Now, if we can only get the fartknockers in the Sierra Club, the House, and Senate to let us drill for the 100+ years supply we have here in the U.S....

[saganite]

I just read an article about micro turbines this morning. First I had heard of them. Here’s the article

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Capstone_Turbine_Corporation

My first thought when I read about them was to wonder if these could power an electric drive vehicle and what the cost would be. I have no earthly idea if it’s even feasible but I’m curious.

[taildragger]

Yes it can, yes it was tried, and it maybe tried again, but I can’t talk about it.....

[taildragger]

Also go here:

http://www.flexdi.com

On the air assisted side of their injector, they could run the gaseous fuel through it for only one injector per engine. These guys have got one trick solution.