Posted on 05/21/2008 10:33:34 AM PDT by Wolfie
State may try to seize sect's assets
AUSTIN — With the price care for the more than 400 children seized last month from the polygamist ranch in West Texas expected to reach into the tens of million of dollars, a legislative panel on Tuesday suggested that the state explore the possibility of garnishing the religious organization's assets to recoup the costs.
"That compound didn't grow out of fairy dust," state Sen. Robert Deuell, R-Greenville, said after a Senate Finance Committee hearing where he urged state health officials to determine whether members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS), or even the sect as a whole, be held responsible for the cost of care. "Why should we be footing the bill when they've got assets?"
The remarks came after the panel heard testimony that providing foster care, Medicaid coverage and casework for the children from the YFZ (Yearning For Zion) Ranch will likely cost taxpayers more than $1.7 million a month for as long as they are in state custody. The figure does not include the $5.3 million for the first six weeks of the operation or the cost of providing the required legal representation for each child, which is likely to total at least $2.2 million.
The committee, which plays a lead role in drafting and overseeing the state's budget, is exploring ways to cover the near-term costs even though no money was appropriated last year for such an event. Legislative leaders and Gov. Rick Perry's office are expecting that an emergency appropriation will be necessary when lawmakers return to Austin in January, to ensure that the state's bill for the operation are paid.
"We basically need to pay what it's going to cost to do the job right, and we need to know, to the best of your ability, what that cost is so we can factor that in when we're making decisions about other worthwhile costs and needs in this state," said Sen. Steve Ogden, the Bryan Republican who chairs the finance panel.
Law enforcement officers and officials from Child Protective Services rounded up the children from the ranch in Eldorado after an anonymous caller claimed to be a pregnant, abused 16-year-old forced into a marriage with a 50-year-old. Officials now believe that the call may have been a hoax.
But CPS workers have said that the children were in imminent danger of abuse, and court hearings began Monday in San Angelo in which many parents are seeking to regain custody of the children.
Deuell said efforts should be made to determine whether any of the children in foster care are covered by the parents' private insurance. If so, he said, the state would not have to enroll them in the taxpayer-supported Medicaid program.
Albert Hawkins, the state's executive commissioner for health and human services, said it was unclear whether members of the sect have private insurance. He also said that officials have found no evidence that anyone from the sect is receiving any sort of public assistance.
But even if the adults do have private insurance, the children would still likely require Medicaid coverage, Hawkins said, because DNA testing to determine parentage is expected to take up to two months to complete.
Rod Parker, a spokesman for the FLDS, said any effort to seize assets belonging to the sect or to individual members would be an overreach on the part of the state.
"I think my response is to ask the state on what legal grounds it believes it would be entitled to take FLDS assets," Parker said in an e-mail to the Star-Telegram. "This is a country of laws; they cannot simply go after assets without legal basis."
More are expected to be similarly reclassified this week, weakening the agency's claim that dozens of underage girls were forced by the sect to have sex with older men.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5793538.html
FLDS spokesman Rod Parker said two CPS workers accompanied by a Schleicher County sheriff's deputy arrived at the Yearning for Zion Ranch between 11 a.m. and 11:30 a.m. Wednesday.
Parker said the CPS workers told men from the ranch who met them at the gate, including church member Guy Jessop, that they'd heard there were more children on the ranch. "They wanted to know if they could come in. I asked, 'Do you have a search warrant?' " Guy Jessop told reporters. The workers didn't have a warrant and were refused entry, he said.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5793538.html
A Republican? No wonder the party has gotten such a bad name. A mush-head and a statist first.
Thanks - from your link”
Sloan and other lawyers for these disputed girls said on Tuesday they believe CPS deliberately classified them as children so that their own investigators, together with Texas Department of Public Safety officers, could interview them without their attorney present.”
From the FBI -
Title 18, U.S.C., Section 242
Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law
This statute makes it a crime for any person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom to willfully deprive or cause to be deprived from any person those rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution and laws of the U.S.
This law further prohibits a person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation or custom to willfully subject or cause to be subjected any person to different punishments, pains, or penalties, than those prescribed for punishment of citizens on account of such person being an alien or by reason of his/her color or race.
Acts under “color of any law” include acts not only done by federal, state, or local officials within the bounds or limits of their lawful authority, but also acts done without and beyond the bounds of their lawful authority; provided that, in order for unlawful acts of any official to be done under “color of any law,” the unlawful acts must be done while such official is purporting or pretending to act in the performance of his/her official duties. This definition includes, in addition to law enforcement officials, individuals such as Mayors, Council persons, Judges, Nursing Home Proprietors, Security Guards, etc., persons who are bound by laws, statutes ordinances, or customs.
Punishment varies from a fine or imprisonment of up to one year, or both, and if bodily injury results or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire shall be fined or imprisoned up to ten years or both, and if death results, or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
#####
CPS workers face the death penalty for kidnapping, under this law.
Ten people were kidnapped, maybe more.
I am not going to post the above on any more threads, but you might want to see it.
The 27 yo presented both a valid DL and BC when CPS took her into custody. Absent other evidence that she was under 18, it seems fairly obvious that they kidnapped her.
That is a federal death-penalty offense.
I hear ya.
That’s sorta my take as well. It sure doesn’t make the government look any better does it.
Well, I don’t know if I’d go quite that far, but I do see clear abuse of power here. This case really stinks IMO.
If they do take the farm, I think that’s wrong.
What it says is that every kid and every adult at that farm were criminals. If nobody deserves a home there, then they are all guilty of something.
This is dead wrong.
Well, I’ll tell ya, I’m not far from that perception. I don’t like what I am seeing down there.
You know what, I agree with you. If there were crimes committed, and I’m fairly sure there where, then it’s time to put up or shut up. If we get beyond two months here without charges being filed, I think it’s time to take the government of Texas to task.
“Why? You’re clearly not really interested in the facts. If you were, you’d have been reading the articles that have been coming out about this case for several weeks now...”
If you have no evidence, just say so. I have followed this case closely since it broke. I however do not believe propaganda ut out by anti-FLDS activists like Carolyn Jessop. That is why I put the word “credible” in my request. If there were welfare fraud, the CPS would have names and ages at their fingertips as well as a crime to charge them with. Its just not there.
Actually the State isn't saying that at all. The State considers this a civil matter and has placed the burden of proof on the FLDS, forcing them to prove that there is no child abuse before they will return the children. It is almost impossible to prove a negative.
That is why there has been no criminal charges. If there were criminal charges the State would have the burden of proof and a higher threshold to meet. The State is using the Civil law to fish for Criminal violations.
My best bet is that the State and the Feds are going to get them on imputed income as the FLDS members try to show a source of income as they try to get their kids back. The FLDS mothers are faced with a dilemma, show a source of income, or never see their kids again. The only way the FLDS can win is if they give up their kids for many, many years and it only takes a single dissenter of the FLDS for them to lose.
This case will set a huge precedent and I fear that some people who are praising the States actions, may someday feel the boot of the State on their own neck.
"That certainly disputes the claims of the anti-FLDS activists here that all of the women and children were on welfare."
You are correct the quote was from FreeInWV. He was referring to statements by your anti FLDS Cabal members.
You subsequently said.
I hope they lock away every old child rapist in this cult.
Proving the point that you Cabal members make unsubstantiated allegations.
Precedent is something folks either don’t understand or don’t seem to care about anymore. I’m with you. There are aspects of this case that should scare the hell out of any sane person, but either there aren’t many sane persons around any longer, or they just don’t care as long as someone they hate ‘gets what is coming to them’ legally or illegaly.
I appreciate your comments. The point about civil vs criminal is something I hadn’t realized was going to be used to the extent that it has been and appears to be in the near future.
Unfortunate.
Check the information that the Utah Attorney General has put out over the past few years.
Who cares. Asset forfeiture doesn’t require a charge to be filed against anyone.
I say if this tactic is good enough to screw someone accused of growing a pot plant, it’s good enough to screw another group of people that the government doesn’t like.
Whether we agree with the homes taken from those who raise pot plants or not, the idea that the home of approximate 600 individuals most of whom are guilty of nothing should be taken, does trouble me.
The government in this case who says they care about their well being, seems perfectly willing to steal these children’s collective assets.
It would also trouble me if the home to 600 people, a few of which had some pot plants were taken.
In fact, it would trouble me a great deal if a single family dwelling were taken after a few pot plants were found.
If we’re talking about a home that isn’t being used as a dwelling, and is being used to cultivate pot, I’d have little problem with it.
and yet there have been no “child rapists” found.. at all. not one.. all the “underage girls” have been found to be adults.. all but one who had her baby when she was 17. Where is your evidence that anyone is raping children? Hard to let go and admit you were dead wrong?
Or the French charging the Jews for the train ride. Horrifically, morbidly creepy. This Deuell guy needs his ass kicked.
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