Why The 2009 Camaro Is Doomed

NMA ^ | 5/16/08 | Eric Peters

[CGTRWK]

Don’t know much about minicars. Look up the numbers with trucks.

[steve86]

Doesn’t the second in your list, the Chevy Aveo, do better with the auto?

[Flying Circus]

oops, got my table a bit out of order...

Model	Manual	Auto
Chevy Cobalt	24/27	22/26
Chevy Aveo	27/33	26/32
Ford Focus	28/35	28/33
Ford Fusion	23/29	23/28
Honda Civic	29/34	29/36
Hinda Accord	25/31	24/31
Honda Fit	31/34	30/34
Mazda3	27/32	26/31
Mazda5	24/28	23/27
Mazda6	24/29	23/28
Nissan Altima	26/32	26/31
Nissan Sentra	24/31	25/33
Toyota Corrolla	31/37	29/35
Toyota Yaris	32/36	31/35

[Flying Circus]

Had to fix my table.

[steve86]

Except most of the old mopeds will have to be pulled when the ban on two-stroke engines comes into effect.

Which ban is that?

[Squawk 8888]

My understanding from the bike clubs is that sales of new vehicles with two-stroke engines is being phased out over the next couple of years in Canada and the USA, and by 2017 registrations for existing two-stroke vehicles will be revoked.

[Flying Circus]

Trucks are the same story... except that manuals are becoming more scarce.

Model	Manual	Auto
Ford F150	16/19	16/19
Ford Ranger	23/26	21/24
Chevy 1500	16/20	16/19
Chevy Colorado	20/24	18/22
Toyota Tacoma	22/25	21/25
Dodge 1500	16/20	16/19

[NaughtiusMaximus]

I remember when the early SAABs were imported during the early 60’s. They had 2 stroke engines and sounded like colossal chain saws. In Northern Minnesota, in the summertime, everybody laughed at those little red footballs (to coin a phrase) until winter came and they proved to be unstoppable wonder machines on snow and ice. I wish I had one out in the shed. Oh well.

[nascarnation]

Thanks for the well-informed post.
Also there’s going to be a good bit of activity with the “h” word vis a vis the Camaro.
(aka hybrid - 6liter 2 mode etc)

[the invisib1e hand]

Why The 2009 Camaro Is Doomed

'cause it ain't a Mustang.

[Smokin' Joe]

2.2l? What did you do, shove a vega engine in there?

[Andonius_99]

My '94 Caprice Wagon has a 350 V-8 and seats 8-9. It gets 26 hwy. When mostly full, it is a better value than a 4 seater econobox (because you would need to drive TWO of them).

I was talking with a coworker about this very subject last week. Everyone's all up in arms about "miles/gallon" determining the value of a car; but the real value of a car, I think, can be determined by "miles/gallon/person." Looking at that figure, the older, more powerful cars that seat more people (or today's SUV's) are a much better value in terms of utility and that's where the value of a vehicle can be determined.

[okie01]

It’s the height of stupidity to pay so much money just to be able to go 0 to 60 in 4 seconds.

For you, maybe.

But why would you object to somebody else paying their own money to do that?

[JasonC]

The democrats will be in the rickshaws. You'll be out front, pulling.

[Onelifetogive]

...to maintain the same income we had a year or so ago...

A 9% pay cut? That would suck...

[steve86]

This is the first I’ve heard of this. Of course, new two strokes have not been sold in the U.S. for on-road use in many years. I will have to await confirmation as I have one licensed two-stroke myself. The “phasing out”, if this applies to new off-road two-strokes, will come as quite a shock to KTM and other manufacturers who import thousands every year. I have not seen any indication in the bike mags this is even rumored. In addition, the ban could not possibly apply to every two stroke variation as the advanced technologies being developed are some of the cleanest ICEs available.

[Straight Vermonter]

Those of us who still have jobs and have been able to maintain the same income we had a year or so ago are few, thankful — and nervous.

WTF? Are there breadlines and food riots that I am not aware of? Are "Hoovervilles" popping up along highways that I have not seen? This guy is delusional.

[BikerTrash]

I used to have a 1966 GTO with a 6.5 liter (389 CID) V8 and a carburetor, and it got this kind of mileage or better. What gives?

Around 350 to 375 horses, (just going on memory here), compared to 425 horses. Ratings were different back then than they are now which make the gap even larger. Efficiency is some better but not that much and more horsepower = more fuel, (generally speaking).

The new Hemi Challenger is also ridiculously heavy, over 4200 pounds, I hear. My old 440 Sixpack Challenger weighs around 3750, probably close to what your GTO weighed. Too fancy, too much safety junk on the new Challenger I reckon.

[L_Von_Mises]

GM is so far along in the process that the 2009 Camaro is pretty much a done deal. I read somewhere that they have already done a test run on the new engine production line. They have also been testing prototypes all over the country as well as at Nurbrurgring in Germany. I just saw some spy shots of the newly designed interior and it looks pretty good (about 90%+ finished).

Regarding fuel economy, my 99 SS gets a little over 30 mpg on the highway, which is on par with many econo-boxes. New technology will surely push that higher. I would expect the base V-8 to get close to the same as mine on the highway.

Engines today are much more efficient than they used to be. My 2006 Town Car gets 25 mpg on the highway. Thats only 5 mpg less than most of the econo-cars someone else posted mpgs for. Figure a 900 mile road trip (distance from my house to Florida) and the cost difference for gasoline is about 40 dollars at today's prices. For the 40 dollar difference, would I rather ride in a Town Car or a clown car for 13 hours?

GM Plans to unveil the new 2009 Camaro at the Brickyard race in September. This will be the first time anyone will know for sure what engines will be in the new Camaro. Speculation is three models - A V-6 with 300 hp, a V-8 with about 400 hp (possibly LS3?), and one serious performance version that is anyone guess - maybe a supercharged 550 hp version:)

General Motors, Chevrolet Division and the Central Indiana Camaro Club would like to announce an exciting new development in the Camaro world. We have now been authorized to release information that the new production Camaros will be in attendance and unveiled at the Indy 08, Back at the Brickyard Event in September. The car will be unveiled at the event and many different models/engine combos will be available for the general public to review. Expect to see many different color combinations as well.

The 'Back at the Brickyard' Event will be happening in Indianapolis Indiana from September 19-21, 2008 at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Hundreds of Camaros, Firebirds, and Pace Car owners will be in attendance to celebrate the unveiling and enjoy this historic event. GM Dignitaries will be in attendance as well to discuss the design, engineering, marketing, and accessories for this new model of Camaro.

Vendors will also be on hand displaying their products.

For more information on this event, please visit

http://www.indycamaro.com/Indy08

We look forward to seeing everyone there!!

Photos and video of the test cars can be found on the net. I have seen white, white with black stripes, at least two black ones side by side, and a yellow one.

In the news today:

The new agreement with the CAW includes a commitment to build an additional RWD vehicle along with the Camaro at St. Catherines (Oshowa, Ont.). Also a new six speed transmission and fuel efficient V-8 - likely to have direct injection and cylinder deactivation will be built there.

http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1029762

Additionally, GM keeps pushing the envelope with respect to powerful V-8s -
Chevrolet Announces Certified Power Ratings For The New Chevrolet Corvette ZR1: 638 Hp From The Supercharged LS9 V-8

As someone once said "There is an ass for every seat."

Since it is average fuel economy over an automaker's entire line that matters, it would take a heck of a lot of sales of these cars to have that much of an impact on their overall CAFE. The automakers need something to get buyers into the showroom, even if they end up buying an economy car.

[oknavigator]

I just read today that the smart car only weighs 1800 pounds? They've already sold 7-8000 of those. They get what 32-35 mpg? Give me back my Geo Prizm that my wife wrecked! 45 mpg and the best little car I ever had. I called it my motorcycle with a shell around it. 3 cylinder standard. 1995 model was VERY roomy inside.