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Extensive missile site in China revealed by satellite(Target: Russia and India)
spacewar.com ^

Posted on 05/16/2008 5:02:40 AM PDT by MARKUSPRIME

Commercial satellite imagery has revealed an extensive nuclear missile site in central China with nearly sixty launch pads for medium-range missiles capable of striking Russia or India, a researcher said Thursday."The US government often highlights China's deployment of new mobile missiles as a concern but keeps the details secret, so the discovery of the deployment area provides the first opportunity for the public to better understand how China operates its mobile ballistic missiles," he wrote."From these launch pads DF-21 missiles would be within range of southern Russia and northern India (including New Delhi), but not Japan, Taiwan or Guam," he wrote.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: armsbuildup; chicoms; chinesemilitary; redchina; satellite
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India and Russia targeted by the Chicoms. These two countries better wake up and realize the US in not the threat to them.
1 posted on 05/16/2008 5:02:41 AM PDT by MARKUSPRIME
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To: MARKUSPRIME

We know who are enemies are. Do you in the US know yours? You keep pampering China and Pakistan and its going to bite you in the rear, maybe tragically.


2 posted on 05/16/2008 5:16:54 AM PDT by IndianChief
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To: MARKUSPRIME
When the time is right, China will seek to secure additional oil resources by force. This base is a deterrent from land invasion for retaliation on their Western front.
3 posted on 05/16/2008 5:17:01 AM PDT by WakeUpAndVote (Huh?)
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To: IndianChief
We know who are enemies are. Do you in the US know yours? You keep pampering China and Pakistan and its going to bite you in the rear, maybe tragically.

I fail to see Indian resolve in standing up to China or Muslims beyond Pakistan. Taiwan would love to purchase some of your weapons.

I wish both of our countries had more testicular fortitude in dealing with totalitarians and fascists.

4 posted on 05/16/2008 5:25:18 AM PDT by SampleMan (We are a free and industrious people, socialist nannies do not become us.)
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To: MARKUSPRIME

Thank You Clinton.


5 posted on 05/16/2008 5:33:04 AM PDT by Westlander (Unleash the Neutron Bomb)
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To: SampleMan
Last year India tested a medium range nuclear capable missile, and the Indian General proclaimed that it was capable of hitting Bejing. I think India is aware of Chinese aggression.

I wouldn't want to share a border with the Chi-Coms. Look at the mess in Burma and North Korea. The chinese puppet masters seem to like to keep pathetic buffers on their borders.

6 posted on 05/16/2008 5:41:54 AM PDT by FreeAtlanta (Search for Folding Project - Join FR Team 36120)
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To: FreeAtlanta
Last year India tested a medium range nuclear capable missile, and the Indian General proclaimed that it was capable of hitting Bejing. I think India is aware of Chinese aggression.

Last time I looked, the United States had thousands of nukes capable of hitting Beijing. Having a weapon and having the fortitude to stand-up to aggression are two separate things. I'll remind you that France had a larger Army, more ships, more tanks, and more airplanes than Germany in 1939, when 90% of the German army was in Poland. A year later, they all belonged to Germany.

7 posted on 05/16/2008 5:46:47 AM PDT by SampleMan (We are a free and industrious people, socialist nannies do not become us.)
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To: SampleMan
I fail to see Indian resolve in standing up to China or Muslims beyond Pakistan.


 

India tests ballistic missile capable of reaching China

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jczYbReIOoyEv6RTvj4ByWMFJT7A

 

BHUBANESWAR, India (AFP) — India successfully tested a nuclear-capable missile Wednesday that can hit targets deep inside China, joining the ranks of nations possessing intermediate-range missile capacity, the defence ministry said.

It marked the third test of the Agni-III missile -- India's longest-range ballistic missile -- and was staged "to establish the repeatability of the missile's performance," defence ministry spokesman Sitanshu Kar told AFP.

The missile was fired from a mobile launcher Wednesday morning at a testing site on Wheeler Island off the coast of the eastern state of Orissa.

Kar said the launch "propelled India into a select group of countries with intermediate-range ballistic missile capabilities and added yet another dimension to national deterrence."

The missile, which has a 3,000-kilometre (1,860-mile) range, can carry conventional or nuclear payloads of 1.5 tonnes, and puts China's major cities such as Shanghai within striking distance, defence analysts say.

The surface-to-surface projectile reached its designated target in 13 minutes and 20 seconds "travelling through a peak height of 350 kilometres with a velocity of more than 4,000 metres per second," said Kar.

The Agni-III -- Agni means fire in Sanskrit -- was first tested in 2006.

But that first trial of the 1.8 metre-diameter (six-foot) missile was a flop when it rose 12 kilometres before crashing into the Bay of Bengal.

The failure was blamed on a snag with its strapped-on solid fuel booster rocket. India successfully tested the missile in April 2007.

In Wednesday's test, 180 kilometres northeast of Orissa's state capital Bhubaneswar, "all the sub-systems of the missile functioned in a copybook manner, giving an outstanding integrated performance of the missile in terms of range and accuracy," Kar said.

The missile is one of a series developed as part of India's deterrence strategy against neighbouring China and Pakistan which also have nuclear weapons, analysts say.

India has shorter-range missiles that analysts say were developed to target long-time rival Pakistan with which it has fought three wars since independence from Britain in 1947.

The two neighbours who launched a slow-moving peace process in 2004 aimed at resolving outstanding disputes including over disputed Kashmir often stage tit-for-tat missile tests.

But the development of the Agni III is aimed at displaying that India's deterrent reach can stretch far beyond Pakistan, analysts say.

In the last few years, however, tensions between India and China, which fought a brief border war in 1962, have eased and there is now direct trade through the Himalayas.

The Agni-III is the country's first solid fuel missile that is compact enough for easy mobility.

India's indigenously developed missile arsenal also includes the short-range Prithvi ballistic missile and the medium-range Akash.
 



India to test 5,000-km range, Agni-IV IRBM at year-end
Domain B ^ | 12 May, 2008 | Domain B
 

New Delhi: With a second successful test of the 3,500 km intermediate range ballistic missile (IRBM), Agni-III, already in the bag, Indian defence scientists are planning to test a long range 5,000 km, IRBM by the end of the year.

According to Aviansh Chander, project director, the planning process for the test launch of the Agni-IV was in the final stages, now that the Agni-III had reached the stage of operationalisation. He indicated Monday that test flights could be scheduled for the end of the year, once government clearance was received.

According to Chander, an intercontinental range of 5,000-km would be achieved by strapping a solid fuel propellant-powered, third stage booster rocket on an Agni-III missile.

The second test of the Agni-III essentially tested the system's repeatability and reliability without any major technological additions as compared to the test carried out in April last year.

Apart from the longer range Agni series missiles, India will also test its ''special naval missile,'' an euphemism used by DRDO scientists for a submarine launched ballistic missile (SLBM), as well as conduct a second test of an 'interceptor' missile. These tests are likely to be undertaken in the September-October period.

According to M Natarajan, director general, Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), his scientists were "heavily engaged" in the special naval missile project. He, however, refused to be drawn out on when India's first nuclear submarine would roll out. "The Advance Technology Vehicle, as the nuclear submarine project is known, is not my project," Natarajan told reporters, when queried if the probable 2009 launch schedule for the submarine would be adhered to.

Agni-IV Last year December, VK Saraswat, chief controller, R&D (missiles and strategic systems), DRDO, had said that the organisation had begun work on Agni-IV, a 5,000 km range missile, to provide ''enough capability'' for a credible deterrence to the country. ''Work on the 5,000 km range missile is on and the first trial is expected to take place in early 2009,'' he said.

According to Saraswat, the Agni-IV, would have many new features, including anti-ballistic counter measures and rocket motor systems with composite materials to improve the thrust-to-weight ratio. It would also be equipped with stealth technology and be more accurate than missiles of a similar class, providing improved mobility and higher energy.

Sarawat had said then that the Agni-IV would not be an inter-continental ballistic missile, but a long range one. According to Saraswat, the Agni-III and IV were the building blocks for missiles with an intercontinental reach.

According to defence scientists, all major technologies for long range missiles have been realised with the two successful tests of the Agni-III missiles. The first successful test took place in April last year.

These technologies include high-power booster, multi-stage vehicles, re-entry technologies, which would allow aero-thermal loads to be sustained at very high Mach numbers along with a potent navigation system to maintain accuracy throughout the flight path.

According to Dr Saraswat, missiles in the range of 2,000-5,000 km would provide India ''enough capability'' to field a ''credible deterrence.''

He also said that depending on existing or emerging threats the need may arise for a 10,000 km range missile in the future. These are generally referred to as the 'Surya' class of missiles and will constitute India's inter-continental ballistic missile capability.

According to Dr Saraswat, India was also developing a ''long endurance,'' long range cruise missile that will fly at high subsonic speeds. Subsonic cruise missiles enable delivery of payloads at low cost and are generally difficult to detect because of their ability to fly at low altitudes.




ICBMs and Why India Doesn't Need Them



1. Is India developing an ICBM?
2. (if yes) The PSLV can/can't just be tipped with nukes and used as first strike weapon.
3. consequences of developing an ICBM.

Here's my take on it.

Do we need an ICBM?

We don't need an ICBM. Not even for 'prestige' or boy toys - if you will.
An ICBM does not serve any of our security needs - in fact can add to more expense if developed in the next decade, secretly.

Our security needs can be more than adequately met by IRBM Agni-3, albeit with a slightly increased range.

 Unlike other countries, all our adversaries are our neighbours - fortunately or unfortunately. Why would need an ICBM for that?

Are we developing an ICBM?

I would say no - and I'm not part of the defence establishment, so its an educated guess. Here's why:

Our current/near-term primary goal is to build a nuclear triad - and we miss a land-based missile capable of hitting all of China (the Agni-3 when produced should be able to do that), we miss an SLBM, and we miss an SLCM/Land based cruise (medium/long range) missile. And we don't have a SSBN or SSN yet - some of them are ongoing projects sucking enough money from the defence budget, why divert money into an ICBM?

An ICBM development would also serve to create a hostile relationship with both Russia and USA, after all who would we want to target an ICBM with? Timbuctoo? So an ICBM we develop would antagonise both our major weapon supplier and the world's sole superpower/our major trade partner. What do we gain? A PSLV with attitude?

Like Moscow's missile defence, it may even lead to our cities being targeted by either/both of those countries - depending on whether we use our own or their tech. I know our politicians are stupid, but not THAT stupid.

Strategic reasons maybe?

Unless India ties up into a NATO-like stance against say, Russia, or against the USA - both about as possible as China letting use Dong Fengs - what would the strategic reason be, for fielding an ICBM - in the absence of a cold war?

An argument could be made that an ICBM could be built for the same reasons the Agni-1 was - speed and ease of usage. But that's patently ridiculous. The Agni-1 is a specific second-strike weapon against Pakistan, even though its range might extend to parts of China.

The Agni's are all solid-fueled, and hence can be fired within minutes. So "replacing" them with a solid-fueled behemoth missile for speed doesn't make sense - more so when reliability might be compromised. The TOPOL-M has made a case for making existing missiles very fast, indeed. Making similar improvements to the Agni is more than adequate.



 

Now (Indian)Navy wants Super Hornets too

HT | May 14, 2008 | Rahul Singh
 

Now Navy wants Super Hornets too

It Is now sufficiently clear that the Indian Navy wants to be able to use the air force’s assets of war. In a revelation so far kept under wraps, the Navy has asked Boeing a contender for India’s $10-billion tender for 126 air force fighters if the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet can operate off the INS Vikramaditya, the rechristened Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov currently being refurbished in Russia for the Indian Navy. None of the fighters in the IAF’s existing fleet have the capability to operate from the deck of an aircraft carrier.

Boeing’s campaign manager for the Indian deal Michael E. Rietz has revealed that after detailed simulations conducted at the company’s test centres, the Super Hornet on offer to India, can in fact operate off the Gorshkov. The significance of Boeing’s finding lies in the fact that the Super Hornet – which by default is launched using a steam-powered catapult on American super-carriers – has never before been known to be able to take off from an angled ski-jump – the launch mechanism on India’s sole aircraft carrier INS Virat, as well as the Gorshkov and the under-construction indigenous aircraft carrier.

Rietz told HT at Lemoore, which holds half of the US Navy’s striking power in the Pacific, “In our simulation, we discovered that not only could the Super Hornet take-off from a ski-jump, but could do so with a significant weapons load.” Landing the Super Hornet on the Gorshkov would pose no problem since the warship comes equipped with an arrester cable. The 16 MiG-29K fighters that will come with the Gorshkov will land using this “trap” method.

A typical scenario illustrates the import of the newly identified ability. A Super Hornet flying with the air force from a shore base can fly hundreds of kilometres over the sea, then land on an aircraft carrier, refuel and proceed onward. The reach advantage it would give the aircraft is something the air force has only envisaged with mid-air refuellers so far. Aircraft carriers, by their very nature, can obviously stay out at sea for far longer.

In 2004, the Navy had sent out a request for information to another American firm Northrop Grumman about whether the latter’s carrier-based airborne early warning and control aircraft, the E-2 Hawkeye, could operate off the Gorshkov. However, plans to procure the aircraft in a ship-based role have since been shelved.

 

 


 

Indian rocket launches 10 satellites in rare space feat [MIRVs, anyone?]
Agence France-Presse ^ | 28 April, 2008 | Agence France-Presse
 

BANGALORE, India (AFP) — An Indian rocket blasted off and successfully launched a cluster of 10 satellites in a single mission Monday, marking a milestone for the country's 45-year-old space programme.

The PSLV rocket lifted off at 9:20 am (0350 GMT) from the Sriharikota space station in southern India in clear weather, leaving behind a massive trail of orange and white smoke, on its 13th flight.

"The mission was perfect," G. Madhavan Nair, chairman of the Bangalore-based Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), said after the launch telecast live by the broadcaster Doordarshan. "Team ISRO has done it again."

"It is a historic moment for us because it is the first time that we have launched 10 satellites in a single mission," he added, congratulating Indian scientists who broke out into applause at the mission control centre.

The rocket's unprecedented payload included an Indian remote-sensing satellite known as the Cartosat-2A, a mini satellite and eight so-called nanosatellites developed by foreign research institutions, including those from Germany and Canada.

The satellites were deployed in orbit within minutes of each other in a rare space feat, with the entire mission lasting about 20 minutes.

India started its space programme in 1963, and has since developed and put several of its own satellites into space. It has also designed and built launch rockets to reduce dependence on overseas space agencies.

 

 

alt

A rocket blasts off from the

Sriharikota space station in

southern India where ten

satellites were launched on

 Monday

 



The solid stage of this launch vehicle, and the fact that it deployed 10 satellites simultaneously, are just about what's needed for a potent, MIRV ICBM.

All roads lead to China border

8 posted on 05/16/2008 5:51:20 AM PDT by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: CarrotAndStick
The two images that didn't load:

 
 
 
 
 
PHILIPPINE SEA (April 9, 2007) – U.S. and Indian Navy ships conducts a formation during Exercise Malabar 07-01. Malabar is a bilateral U.S.-Indian Navy training exercise off the coast of Okinawa, Japan. U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 1st Class John L. Beeman

 

 


 

PHILIPPINE SEA (April 9, 2007) - Indian Navy guided-missile destroyer INS Mysore (D 60) and Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62) transit in formation in support of Exercise Malabar 07-01. Malabar is a bilateral U.S.-Indian Navy training exercise off the coast of Okinawa, Japan. U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 1st Class John L. Beeman

9 posted on 05/16/2008 5:58:17 AM PDT by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: CarrotAndStick

So if you think those are examples of Indian resolve, you must think that the United States has ten times as much resolve, right?


10 posted on 05/16/2008 6:01:47 AM PDT by SampleMan (We are a free and industrious people, socialist nannies do not become us.)
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To: SampleMan

I’m sure they have a resolve. Most likely more than India’s.


11 posted on 05/16/2008 6:11:08 AM PDT by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: IndianChief

Unfortunately, we Americans are constitutionally incapable of knowing who our enemies are until the bombs begin to fall. The rare individuals who buck this trend are are “radicals,” “alarmists,” “jingoists,” and / or “bigots.”


12 posted on 05/16/2008 6:11:18 AM PDT by Little Ray (I'm a Conservative. But I can vote for John McCain. If I have to. I guess.)
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To: SampleMan

Just curious, how exactly would you like China to be dealt with?


13 posted on 05/16/2008 6:11:48 AM PDT by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: CarrotAndStick
Just curious, how exactly would you like China to be dealt with?

The same way that I would like all totalitarian regimes to be dealt with.

1. The UN should be dissolved and an organization of democracies should replace it.
2. We should not give them most favored trade status.
3. Military ambitions against a democracy or in an area that is counter to our national interests should be met with clear resolve and followed with action if required.

14 posted on 05/16/2008 6:41:10 AM PDT by SampleMan (We are a free and industrious people, socialist nannies do not become us.)
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To: CarrotAndStick

The only thing our 2 nations(since they have nukes) along with Japan and Australia can do is containment. Do not let their sphere of intrests grow in asia.China would lose a hot conventional (Air and sea I mean)war. Then they would fire nukes. They would lose that as well but our sides would take large losses.What needs to be done is to form an alliance sort of like NATO for the sole purpose of Chicom containment.


15 posted on 05/16/2008 6:41:51 AM PDT by MARKUSPRIME
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To: SampleMan
I wish both of our countries had more testicular fortitude in dealing with totalitarians and fascists.

Actually, America has done just that and has continued to. There are US troops in Iraq after the ousting of Sadaam Hussein and troops in Afghanistan after the ousting of the Taliban.

And US corporations and businesses has flooded into China since 1980. China kicked out US and Western business not too long after 1949. But now they are back in greater numbers than ever before. The US and the free world has won. The Chinese have been shown that the road to prosperity is the integration into the world economy and they are taking full advantage of it.

In fact, America and the European Union continue to pry China's market open and to further integrate her into the global economy. And against Chinese resistance. Yet, in the long run, the West will eventually have her way.

Militarily, America continues to send her troops into at least a hundred places across the globe, whether direct combatants or advisors.

It perplexes me why people on this board are complaining about the way things are, especially in regards to China.

Here is what I've observed. The more the West pry China's market open, the more she prospers. And yet, the more she prospers, the more angst she creates in the West.

Isn't that ironic??? :)

16 posted on 05/16/2008 4:51:19 PM PDT by ponder life
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To: ponder life
Here is what I've observed. The more the West pry China's market open, the more she prospers. And yet, the more she prospers, the more angst she creates in the West.

Prosperity for China has an opening influence, but it is not an end in itself. Germany also had a surge of prosperity in the 1930's. The fire of nationalism, misdirected by the NAZI's ensured that Germany's prosperity did not end so well.

Currently, Chinese nationalism is seen by the West as focusing on racial superiority and a desire to prove their power by making lesser countries kowtow.

There are 40 million democratic Taiwanese who do not desire to be forced into the collective, yet China is growing its military by leaps and bounds with the sole focus of doing just that.

Meanwhile, we have a large and powerful socialist movement in the United States who has decided that we must unilaterally disarm and lay our head upon the block for every third world potentate with an ax.

17 posted on 05/17/2008 4:35:04 AM PDT by SampleMan (We are a free and industrious people, socialist nannies do not become us.)
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To: SampleMan
Prosperity for China has an opening influence, but it is not an end in itself. Germany also had a surge of prosperity in the 1930's. The fire of nationalism, misdirected by the NAZI's ensured that Germany's prosperity did not end so well.

Germany's economy during the 1930's was significantly geared towards war production. Look at China's current numbers from exports, to GDP, to consumer purchases. China's military spending is small in comparison to all other measures to China's economy. And even when using the Pentagon's estimate of China's military budget. And when using the Pentagon's estimate of $120-$130 billion or so, it represents a reasonable percentage of China's overall GDP.

Currently, Chinese nationalism is seen by the West as focusing on racial superiority and a desire to prove their power by making lesser countries kowtow.

It may be perceived in the West that way, but is it in reality true? Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are critical of Americans as being racist. But simply because they have that point of view, does that make it true?

There are 40 million democratic Taiwanese who do not desire to be forced into the collective, yet China is growing its military by leaps and bounds with the sole focus of doing just that.

I have worked with people who are native Taiwanese, and there is indeed a strong political view amongst many for independence. But there are equally strong views from those who trace their ancestry to China and who were born and raised in Taiwan who believe Taiwan is part of China. And they are just as passionate in regards to their view.

Meanwhile, we have a large and powerful socialist movement in the United States who has decided that we must unilaterally disarm and lay our head upon the block for every third world potentate with an ax.

I don't know if you disagreeing with my previous comment or not, but did you read the part where I said that US forces are involved in over a hundred places across the globe? ...and more so than any other country in the world. The US military budget represents half the world's military budget. So, if there is a socialist movement in the US to disarm, they aren't having much of an affect from my observation.

18 posted on 05/17/2008 2:51:34 PM PDT by ponder life
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To: ponder life
It may be perceived in the West that way, but is it in reality true?

They're a bull in a China shop throughout Asia when it comes to throwing their economic muscle and UN veto around. Perception has nothing to do with it. Its a reality from Thailand to the Middle East.

I have worked with people who are native Taiwanese, and there is indeed a strong political view amongst many for independence. But there are equally strong views from those who trace their ancestry to China and who were born and raised in Taiwan who believe Taiwan is part of China. And they are just as passionate in regards to their view.

I'm starting to suspect you are just a Chicom propagandist. The native Taiwanese far outnumber the 1949 immigrants and I don't buy that any of them relish surrendering their freedom to be part of the hive.

I don't know if you disagreeing with my previous comment or not, but did you read the part where I said that US forces are involved in over a hundred places across the globe? ...and more so than any other country in the world. The US military budget represents half the world's military budget.

And we still haven't taken another country like Tibet and claimed it as our own. How about that.

So, if there is a socialist movement in the US to disarm, they aren't having much of an affect from my observation.

Well you can keep hoping, that Chinese money keeps rolling in to them.

19 posted on 05/17/2008 4:29:45 PM PDT by SampleMan (We are a free and industrious people, socialist nannies do not become us.)
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To: SampleMan
They're a bull in a China shop throughout Asia when it comes to throwing their economic muscle and UN veto around. Perception has nothing to do with it. Its a reality from Thailand to the Middle East.

Depends on how much history you want to go into. If you go all the way back to 1949, I would agree with you. But recently, China has tried a more diplomatic approach. And just about every country has dirt that can be dug up if you go back far enough.

I'm starting to suspect you are just a Chicom propagandist.

On this message board, get in line. You are not the first to accuse me of that. But I WANT democracy to come to China. Someday and in due time, though.

The native Taiwanese far outnumber the 1949 immigrants and I don't buy that any of them relish surrendering their freedom to be part of the hive.

I don't know what the percentages are, but I have met a fair number of Chinese Taiwanese. And they are just as adament about Taiwan being part of China as the Taiwanese natives are about independence. If you get a chance to ever meet someone from there, I would suggest you ask them their political view in that regard. They're not communists and they enjoy democracy as well as anyone else.

And we still haven't taken another country like Tibet and claimed it as our own. How about that.

Well, I was making a point in regards to your comment about how the US should deal with dictators in post #14. My point was, is that the US, merely by the presence in Iraq and Afghanistan, is doing just that. And that the US military budget reflects that commitment.

Well you can keep hoping, that Chinese money keeps rolling in to them.

Actually, up to this point, most of China's money that has been "rolling in" to the US has been used to buy government T-Bills. T-Bills which have been used to finance everything from pensions to .....drum roll please.... the US military.

20 posted on 05/18/2008 1:53:31 PM PDT by ponder life
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