Plane's engines quit before crash

Coeur d'Alene Press ^ | May 13, 2008 | Tom Greene

[PrivateIdaho]

Plane's engines quit before crash

Federal Aviation Administration continues investigation

HAYDEN -- Doug Parker was talking with a friend outside his hangar at the Coeur d'Alene Airport when he called the plane going down Monday at 6:45 p.m.

"I heard it quit," Parker said Tuesday. "I knew the guy flying it and it went dead silence under full power."

Under normal conditions, there is an audible noise when a plane slows down, Parker said.

"I said 'He didn't shut that power off. He didn't abort it.' I said 'There's going to be a plane crash.' And then: boom."

Hans Petter Dyroy, 54, was certifying Hamid A Wasti, 43, who was piloting, by practicing "touch-and-go" landing techniques in Wasti's twin engine airplane, according to the sheriff's report.

"I briefly talked to Wasti and he told me he was taking off from the CDA airport when both engines stopped working," the report reads. "He attempted to restart the engines but failed. After a few seconds, Dyroy took over and again attempted to start the engines but they would not start. According to Wasti the airplane failed to gain anymore lift and they landed in the lot and crashed in the pickup truck."

full story...

[PrivateIdaho]

My wife has known the instructor for a few years, he also flies private jets for some locals. She was supposed to go flying with him and some friends sometime this summer - which had me a little concerned. Now, not so much... sounds like he's pretty good.

The thing that concerns me is the student pilot. We don't have a whole lot of "Hamids" in the phone book around here - and even fewer taking flying lessons at the local airstrip.

[RoadTest]

“The thing that concerns me is the student pilot. We don’t have a whole lot of “Hamids” in the phone book around here - and even fewer taking flying lessons at the local airstrip. “

Good point.

[r9etb]

We don't have a whole lot of "Hamids" in the phone book around here - and even fewer taking flying lessons at the local airstrip.

Unlike certain previous flying students, however, this guy was making an effort to learn how to perform controlled landings....

My guess at the cause: water in the gas.

[wrench]

The US has the most inexpensive flight instruction in the world. Any airport with a flight instructor is likely to have foreign students, been this way for more than 40 years, nothing new.

[gridlock]

I misread the headline as “Plame”, and got all hopeful...

[Steve Van Doorn]

"water in the gas."

Agreed. Happened to me when i was learning. But I found it when doing the check out.

[lexusppd]

Water in the gas should be taken care of in the pre flight and isn't it an bit unusual for BOTH engines to quit at once? I have to admit I never flew a twin. Is the fuel for each engine drawn from the same source or are their separate fuel cells for each engine?

[AmericanHunter]

I’m getting ready for a BFR tomorrow afternoon. I’m using an unfamiliar airplane, as mine is apart for annual inspection right now. You can be sure I’ll be doing a VERY thorough pre-flight.

[Wings-n-Wind]

Hmmmmm....

Insurance actuaries & GA industry statistics have long indicated that multi-engine instruction is THE most likely scenario for serious/oft-fatal accidents...

The requirements for training the new multi-drivers in engine failure procedures [where seconds really count at low altitude)...
And engine-out operations makes the cross-play between instructor and students rife with opportunities for procedural mistakes with verrrry negative/unrecoverable consequences.

Lifting out of a touch-&-go landing is a classic opportunity for the instructor to "pull an engine" -- ideally SIMULATING failure (by leaving the engine running but setting the appropriate throttle to idle thrust)...

When I was active... All MEI's were taught to NEVER actually kill a good engine near the ground by pulling the fuel mixture to OFF... always SIMULATE with the throttle setting....

Ergo... if the student made a mistake identifying the "failed" engine... and executed eng-fail procedures on the remaining "good" engine....

...The instructor still had one good engine (idling) to salvage the situation before it deteriorated into an unrecoverable (no time/altitude remaining!)

*******************

Surmised from the witnesses quoted in the article...
"It sounded like..."

This situation sounds like the instructor MAY HAVE intentionally pulled the FUEL MIXTURE on one engine on the go/clean-up...

The student hurriedly responded and mis-identified the intentionally failed engine.... executing eng-fail procedures on the remaining good engine... which would include MISTAKENLY pulling the mixture control of the remaining GOOD ENGINE to CUT-OFF...

SAD RESULTS:
Suddenly verrrrrry quiet on-board and all around the field...

TWO OUT OF TWO engines not running...

Fresh out of working propellers....

KA-BOOM....

I am glad they didn't perish in the crash...

A SUPERIOR pilot (...by extension - a SUPERIOR flight instructor).....
...Is one who uses SUPERIOR judgment to avoid situations and scenarios where SUPERIOR flying skills might be required to save the aiarcraft and the lives on board!

Just my humble.... have a nice day!

[KeyLargo]

Hans.Petter.Dyroy I'm located in Hayden , Idaho Certificates: Pilot, Ground Instructor and Flight Instructor. Certificate Levels: Airline Transport Pilot. Certificate Ratings: Airplane Multiengine Land, Airplane Single Engine Land, Airplane Single and Multiengine, Instrument Airplane and Instrument.

http://www.pilot-flight-instruction.com/profile.170706.html

A twin-engine airplane crashed and hit a pickup in Kootenai County on Monday near the Kootenai Electric office close to Coeur d'Alene Airport/ Pappy Boyington Field. The Spokesman-Review (KATHY PLONKA The Spokesman-Review )

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/local/story.asp?ID=244516

[KeyLargo]

Aviation ping

[Yo-Yo]

The thing that concerns me is the student pilot. We don't have a whole lot of "Hamids" in the phone book around here - and even fewer taking flying lessons at the local airstrip.

But this Hamid owned the aircraft.

Hans Petter Dyroy, 54, was certifying Hamid A Wasti, 43, who was piloting, by practicing "touch-and-go" landing techniques in Wasti's twin engine airplane, according to the sheriff's report.

[bill1952]

..My guess at the cause: water in the gas.

How could that escape one of the most important, if not the most important, preflight check?
I am an instructor in Florida.

[r9etb]

How could that escape one of the most important, if not the most important, preflight check? I am an instructor in Florida.

Easy ... they got lazy or distracted or had a miscommunication.

I can't speak from a piloting perspective, but in my own line of work I've seen any number of failures and mistakes caused by failure to perform some basic check. I've made a few such mistakes myself.

As I said, though, it's just a guess. There are other things that could cause a plane's engines to shut down as described ... but fuel seemed to me the most obvious candidate.

[U S Army EOD]

I am a new pilot with not much over 100 total hours. Even I know that full loss of power will have an effect on your climb rate in an heavy airplane.

[bill1952]

Speaking from my perspective, that is exactly what all of our checklists are for.

There are procedures in aviation, and using a checklist is the biggest and most important one.
Paramount.
I cannot see how pumping the sumps to check the fuel could possibly not be done, especially when there is an instructor flying right seat.
It is right on every checklist ever made.
Your life depends on these rules every time that you are wheels up.

[Starstruck]

Most of them quit during a crash.

[af_vet_rr]

The thing that concerns me is the student pilot. We don't have a whole lot of "Hamids" in the phone book around here - and even fewer taking flying lessons at the local airstrip.

Not surprising - most people are amazed at how cheap it is in the US to learn to fly - I would hazard a guess and say that a good %60 if not more of the international pilots for non-US airlines were trained in the US. It helps that the international language for civil aviation is English and so many foreign pilots are also learning English as well (sounds scary at first, but the tests are in English, so they have to have some proficiency in the language before starting flying instructions).

The US is one of the few countries that encourages widespread general aviation (which keeps the cost of instruction low) although in recent years it seems at times the federal government doesn't like GA too much....

[ropin71]

Just curious, as I know nothing of pre-flight checks..
but how do you check for water in the gas?

[r9etb]

Just curious, as I know nothing of pre-flight checks.. but how do you check for water in the gas?

It's a simple device. There's a fuel outlet on the bottom of the wing. You drain a bit of fuel into one of these:

Water is heavier than avgas. If there's water in the fuel, it will settle to the bottom of the tank, by the outlet. And when you drain into the device, the water will settle to the bottom of the device.

Avgas is colored; water is not. So it's a simple and obvious process.