NYC judge sentences Remy Ma to 8 years in prison [female rapper shoots another woman]

Yahoo ^ | 5/13.08 | SAMUEL MAULL

[DemforBush]

NEW YORK - A weeping Remy Ma was sentenced to eight years in prison Tuesday for shooting a woman outside a Manhattan nightclub...

[LibWhacker]

For some statistics in support of my position, check this out:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/849728/posts

notably,

9 millimeter jacketed hollow point 147 grain ... 39.9 on the Hatcher scale, vs.,
.45 ACP jacketed hollow point 230 grain ...... 60.7 on the Hatcher scale,

a 52% improvement in stopping power.

[samtheman]

I think you’re misinterpreting what large-caliber advocates are actually saying. A large caliber weapon is a good defensive weapon in that it gives you better stopping power (i.e., the ability to stop an attack immediately) than a smaller caliber weapon. Both large and small caliber weapons are about equally lethal — if you get hit in the right spot, and equally nonlethal if a vital organ isn’t hit.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

Large-caliber isn't so much about going for the kill as stopping an attacker in his tracks.

[calex59]

I think you’re misinterpreting what large-caliber advocates are actually saying. A large caliber weapon is a good defensive weapon in that it gives you better stopping power (i.e., the ability to stop an attack immediately) than a smaller caliber weapon. Both large and small caliber weapons are about equally lethal — if you get hit in tright spot, and equally nonlethal if a vital organ isn’t hit.

Nope, I am not misinterpreting what they say. I am 66 years old, been shooting and hunting since I was 11 years old. Mostly in California. Large caliber addicts are stuck on the larger the better. If you hit someone(or a game animal)in the right place then caliber becomes less important, also if you hit someone(or a game animal) in a non lethal spot a large caliber is not going to kill any better than a small caliber.

Large is good to a point, but teaching large is the only choice is not good.

I carry(legally)small caliber firearms that I can shoot very well. I also carry large caliber weapons when I can hide them well, but you can't always do that, so learn to shoot and you will not worry to much about what caliber you are using. Also, learn to think and then you won't jump on someone who knows what the he** they are talking about based on years of experience and actually combat usage.

[calex59]

Read my post #23. I answer this guys question. Don’t agree? Well too bad, a lifetime of experience stands behind my statements, how about you? Any firefights in your past, or are you just parroting what you have heard and what you think is correct?

[reagan_fanatic]

The scary thing is that’s the way they talk in person, too.

[SJSAMPLE]

I remember that thread.

Those were mere calculations, not scientific observations, dervied in the early 1900s by a guy unqualified in the matter.

Marshall and Sanow conducted a more realistic set of observations and tabulated them. I’ll try to look them up.

[antiRepublicrat]

There’s no such thing as “stopping power”.

Just asking for info here. A 9mm Para has around 350 ft/lb of force, a .45 ACP has around 400 ft/lb and a .44 Mag has around 1,500 ft/lb. The last imparting over four times the amount of force to the target than the first if there is no exit, wouldn't that be a factor in how quickly an opponent is incapacitated?

Obviously I'm talking general case, not a shot to the medulla oblongata where it doesn't really matter what you use.

[LibWhacker]

...a large caliber is not going to kill any better than a small caliber.

Wow.

Well, this is where you reveal that you absolutely do not understand the problem, or the solution... Stopping power IS NOT about immediately killing your target. It's about stopping him or stunning him long enough to get another shot at him, before he gets another shot (or stab) at you.

BTW, it's very presumptuous of you to think you've been shooting longer than anyone else on this website, or that you can think better. I've been shooting almost as long as you have and have an advanced degree in mathematics. I didn't get it by sloppy thinking such as you've displayed here... SHEESH!

[bvw]

I knew a guy who had been in gun fight at point blank range — over the store counter. He took 3 or 4 38 rounds, the clerk took 3 or 4 45 rounds. Both lived, although the clerk was near-death for a while — a round nicked his heart.

When I knew the killer (he had killed on another occasion) he had turned state’s witness.

About the same time I also knew a guy who had been in a shotgun fight at a liquor store. He was the uncle of the owner and was working as “shotgun” at the time. He took at least one blast to the gut. He lasted about three months, but he gave it up. The other fellow — the robber, was DOA.

[samtheman]

No doubt marksmanship trumps caliber in most situations, especially when range comes in to play. And you are no doubt correct that “learn to shoot” is better advice than simply “carry large-caliber”.

However, if a crack-head with an ax was running towards someone you love (your wife, your kid) and that someone wasn’t as good a marksman as you but did know how to shoot a gun, which would you rather they held in their hand at that moment, a .22 or a .45?

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

However, if a crack-head with an ax was running towards someone you love (your wife, your kid) and that someone wasn’t as good a marksman as you but did know how to shoot a gun

If they weren't good marksmen, it wouldn't matter what caliber they held because the odds say that they probably wouldn't hit the target anyway.

[calex59]

Like I said in my other post, I carry large when I can conceal it, which means in the winter I usually carry my .45 long colt 5 shot revolver, in the summer I carry a .38 special or .380 auto. Bigger is better if you can shoot, but small is good if that is all you've got and bigger won't help you if you miss the vitals. To many new shooters carry over sized weapons they can't handle.

Answer this question, if you couldn't hit with a .44 or larger weapon(.44 special or equivalent) and you could hit with a .38 special, which would you carry? Lots of women can't hit with the larger calibers so carry weapons they can hit with. Telling them they should have larger weapons is BS if they can't hit with them. 2 shots to the chest, one to the head will put anyone down regardless of caliber.

[samtheman]

Ok. I'm not arguing with you. I'm interested in your point of view.

But I still think you'd opt for your loved one to have the bigger gun in the situation I described, as long as they were capable of handling it and were accustomed to at least firing it.

What do you think of this:

MEU SOC .45 continues to provide stopping power for 31st MEU.

[samtheman]

Good point about some women maybe being able to aim and shoot a .38 while being possibly overwhelmed by the weight of a .45.

[wastedyears]

She’s exceedingly guilty to me.

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

...as long as they were capable of handling it and were accustomed to at least firing it.

That's the key. When we went looking for a firearm for the wife, the first priority was whether she could handle it. She wanted an auto, but couldn't rack the slide on any of them until we happened across a Star M30 9mm.

IMO, shot placement is primary. Caliber is secondary. A .22 to the head is going to do a lot more damage than a .45 to the toe.

But, as you point out, practice is more important than anything. If you can't hit what you're aiming at then the tool is useless. (or, worse)

MEU SOC .45 continues to provide stopping power for 31st MEU.

.45 is a good round. I've got a 1911A1/Para.

[SAMS]

Smith, 26, begged the judge for leniency for the sake of “my little boy,” saying she grew up “surrounded by failure, violence and poverty,” but “made something out of nothing” from her life.

Made something of your life?? Evidently not, because your punk a$$ is going to jail.

[LibWhacker]

Thanks, I appreciate that.

BTW, I've studied some of those equations a long time ago in grad school and they are based on actual data, both animal data and battlefield data.

You can define stopping power any way you want. Whether or not it has any validity is an entirely different question. For instance, if I were to take a crack at it, I'd first try dp/dt; i.e., how much momentum changes as the bullet passes through the body. However, that's not quite right either; I distinctly remember that the cross-sectional area of the projectile is also involved in the definition stopping power.

In fact, as I recall, one very useful definition involved the product of the mass of the projectile, the velocity of the projectile, and the cross-sectional area of the projectile... times some scaling constant. And all this was done by physicists or engineers who knew what they were doing.

While you're trying to come up with your citation, I'll try to come up with mine. Mine wasn't taken from the web , but from a textbook years ago, so I might have a problem finding it.

Thanks for not going personal with this, SJS. I can't stand it when people aren't intellectually equipped to have a normal rational discussion of a subject without trying to inject personal insults into the situation. Jesus, you might as well try talking to a first grader.

[samtheman]

Shot placement is primary. Those are excellent words. Words to live by. Or at least shoot by.

[contrarian]

http://stevespages.com/page8f45acp.html This is an interesting site comparing barrel length with terminal performance of .45 ammo. My carry gun is a Kimber Ultra Raptor in .45 with ammo selection to equalize the performance drop due to the shorter barrel.