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Taking Out the Junk (Science)
Cross Action News ^ | 5-12-08 | Bill Steigerwald

Posted on 05/12/2008 7:13:34 AM PDT by Victory111

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To: Old Professer

Etiology; sorry.


41 posted on 05/12/2008 9:10:53 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: meandog; netmilsmom
But, please, don't ask me or anyone else to be responsible for your medical expenses or increased shared insurance premiums should you need assistance with long-term diabetes, heart disease, lung cancer, or injury in a car crash.

Either you work for the insurance company or you have a fundamental misunderstanding about how insurance is supposed to work. If you work for the insurance company, it's understandable that you want to claim to cover a population while at the same time cherry picking the population to include only those who will bring in the most amount of money with the least expenditure on claims. This is like the house in gambling trying to exclude people with really, really good memories and understanding of the game from games that aren't entirely controlled by chance. If folks want to make money playing the odds in insuring a population and be licensed by the state to do so, then they should have to take the entire population and design their pricing scheme accordingly. The way both insurance and a gambling syndicate make money is based on the fact that a large portion of the population is going to be less likely than the rest to get sick or less likely than most to win. In other words, the middle ground and the outliers on one side always pay for the outliers on the other side. To want to design things so that only those can play who are least likely to collect is just another way of saying that one wants to be able to rig the game and get away with it.
42 posted on 05/12/2008 9:27:28 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan
He's a pseudo libertarian that wants you and me to live the Green life. Good explaination of the insurance industry too!
43 posted on 05/12/2008 9:32:49 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Ironman. (but made from Gold plated titanium))
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To: meandog
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service biologists fed large doses of DDT to captive bald eagles for 112 days and concluded that “DDT residues encountered by eagles in the environment would not adversely affect eagles or their eggs,” according to a 1966 report published in the “Transcripts of 31st North America Wildlife Conference.”

The USFWS examined every bald eagle found dead in the U.S. between 1961-1977 (266 birds) and reported no adverse effects caused by DDT or its residues.

One of the most notorious DDT “factoids” is that it thinned bird egg shells. But a 1970 study published in Pesticides Monitoring Journal reported that DDT residues in bird egg shells were not correlated with thinning. Numerous other feeding studies on caged birds indicate that DDT isn’t associated with egg shell thinning.

In the few studies claiming to implicate DDT as the cause of thinning, the birds were fed diets that were either low in calcium, included other known egg shell-thinning substances, or that contained levels of DDT far in excess of levels that would be found in the environment – and even then, the massive doses produced much less thinning than what had been found in egg shells in the wild.

So what causes thin bird egg shells? The potential culprits are many. Some that have been reported in the scientific literature include: oil; lead; mercury; stress from noise, fear, excitement or disease; age; bird size (larger birds produce thicker shells); dehydration; temperature; decreased light; human and predator intrusion; restraint and nutrient deficiencies.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,202447,00.html
44 posted on 05/12/2008 9:38:44 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Victory111

For the “DDT Kills Eagles” crowd, “FOXNEWS.COM HOME > VIEWS ‘Bald Eagle-DDT Myth Still Flying High’ Thursday, July 06, 2006 By Steven Milloy.
Check the article. Also ngm.nationalgeographic.com says some 128,000 eagles were killed under Alaska bounty system from 1917-1952 and it had little long lasting effects on populations.
Loss of habitant is a more likely culprit than DDT.


45 posted on 05/12/2008 9:41:05 AM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: meandog

Do you know anyone killed by DDT? DDT has saved millions, no hundreds of millions of lives and yet you babble on about putting it in coffee.
DDT is saving lives and preventing people from being crippled for life. No other insecticide is as effective or cheap for poor countries with few dollars to spend and yes they use it safely against mosquitoes but of this you know nothing.


46 posted on 05/12/2008 9:56:30 AM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: meandog

From Wahing Post, Semp. 16, 2006, WHO Urges Use of DDT inb Africa, “Swaziland and Madagascar each had malaria epidemics after suspending DDT spraying, the latter’s outbreak killing more than 100,000 people from 1986 to 1988. Both epidemics were stopped when DDT spraying resumed.”
TWO YEARS, 100,000 deaths after stopping use of DDT! and you say, “Really? Whom?”!


47 posted on 05/12/2008 10:35:27 AM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Straight Vermonter; aruanan; netmilsmom; Old_Professor; bigfootbob

Well, if someone can show me peer-reviewed majority scientific fact, then I’ll stand corrected on DDT. But the evidence I’ve read is that the world community of science has regarded the pesticide as a deadly agent for fish, and birds that prey on fish and that DDT has an incredibly long half-life. There are other good insecticides (Carbary-C12H11NO2) that are relatively inexpensive and work effectively, too, and are regarded as much safer. As well, ask yourselves, why would the world health community seek a ban on DDT—and this was long before “global warming” nonsense?


48 posted on 05/12/2008 10:35:51 AM PDT by meandog ((please pray for future President McCain, day minus 254 and counting))
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To: meandog

(Carbary-C12H11NO2) does not come up on a Google search. What is it?


49 posted on 05/12/2008 10:39:55 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Ironman. (but made from Gold plated titanium))
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To: meandog

>>As well, ask yourselves, why would the world health community seek a ban on DDT—and this was long before “global warming” nonsense?<<

Bumpersticker mentality maybe? The bandwagon to feel good? Agenda driven $$$$

Lots of things.

But YOU are disregarding all of the articles and research here and asking for more. Read and comprehend what has been presented to you.


50 posted on 05/12/2008 10:42:55 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Ironman. (but made from Gold plated titanium))
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To: meandog

Wrong again! J. Gordon Edwards Ph.D. was head of Entomology at San Jose University and wrote about the use of DDT and the overblown hype about its supposed dangers.
During WW 2 he was a soldier in Italy and used DDT to dust the troops for lice. Dust is the right word as he said.
Edwards died at 84. Do you think it was the DDT?
His testimony at EPA hearings can be found on the Internet.


51 posted on 05/12/2008 10:44:23 AM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: netmilsmom

Chemical in Sevin, other insecticides


52 posted on 05/12/2008 10:49:55 AM PDT by meandog ((please pray for future President McCain, day minus 254 and counting))
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To: meandog

Oooooo, I think I’m getting it here. You know the name of a chemical that doesn’t even come up on a google search then tell us that it’s an Ingredient of sevin.

Part of the chemical industry are ya? No wonder you have the ideas you do.

Money in the pocket, eh mate?


53 posted on 05/12/2008 10:56:38 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Ironman. (but made from Gold plated titanium))
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To: meandog; Old Professer
...try putting some in your coffee...

Prof Kenneth Mellanby

54 posted on 05/12/2008 10:58:11 AM PDT by BufordP (Had Mexicans flown planes into the World Trade Center, Jorge Bush would have surrendered.)
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To: netmilsmom; meandog

You are discussing priorities, not junk science.

Science didn’t judge the the ramifications of a ban, it demonstrated the harm caused by DDT.

That harm is real, and is not junk science. The failure to weigh the degrees of harm between use and discontinuation of DDT is what is at issue.


55 posted on 05/12/2008 10:59:57 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: meandog

You made your allegation so find your own “peer-reviewed majority scientific fact”. What evidence have you read? Show what “the world community of science”, (whatever that is) has said. Some traceable evidence, some citations beyond your own recieved opinions.
Even Greenpeace has had to rethink its opposition to DDT as per www.Heartland.Org April 1, 2005.


56 posted on 05/12/2008 11:02:35 AM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

>>That harm is real, and is not junk science<<

Harm to what?


57 posted on 05/12/2008 11:04:33 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Ironman. (but made from Gold plated titanium))
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To: meandog
Bald Eagle-DDT Myth Still Flying High

But you'll probably blow the article off since it was written by Steve Milloy.

58 posted on 05/12/2008 11:07:55 AM PDT by BufordP (Had Mexicans flown planes into the World Trade Center, Jorge Bush would have surrendered.)
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To: meandog

“...when every scientific fact points otherwise.”

Really. Name one.


59 posted on 05/12/2008 11:09:52 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: count-your-change; Old Professer

Yeah, I’ve heard about J. Gordon Edwards Ph.D. He had something to do with anti-nuke kook group as well, didn’t he?


60 posted on 05/12/2008 11:14:45 AM PDT by meandog ((please pray for future President McCain, day minus 254 and counting))
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