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Students claim police chief who shot himself was careless
Ap via Yahoo ^ | Tue May 6, 2008

Posted on 05/07/2008 5:23:02 AM PDT by Abathar

RIVERDALE, Utah - The police chief who shot himself in the ankle was waving a loaded pistol and being careless, according to two students who were attending his class to qualify for a concealed-weapons permit. "We were told the gun is the chief's personal sidearm, but it looked to me like he didn't know anything about the gun," Lewis Walker said.

Bart Ulm, another student seeking certification to carry a concealed weapon, said he was surprised Chief Dave Hansen was using a loaded gun to show how it worked.

"Right then, I was very leery, because there's no need to have live ammo in a gun in the class. But I figured he's the chief, so he must know what he's doing," Ulm told the Standard-Examiner of Ogden.

Hansen held the Glock 40 under a table to disassemble it when a bullet fired, Walker said.

The chief cried, "I'm hit," and fell over. Students who were screaming "Officer down!" were urged to call 911.

The gun went off in a conference room Saturday at Riverdale police headquarters.

Hansen was taken to McKay-Dee Hospital in Ogden for surgery and released Monday, Lt. James Ebert said.

Ebert said the findings of an internal investigation would be announced Wednesday. He declined to offer specifics but disputed the accounts of Ulm and Walker, describing the pair as "disgruntled."

Other students "did not share that feeling" about the chief, Ebert told The Associated Press.

Walker said he didn't have confidence in the investigation.

"I think Riverdale police are just trying to keep this quiet and act like the chief is a hero. But if you ask me, he's really stupid," Walker said. "His state certification to teach concealed-weapons classes should be taken away from him. This was totally gross negligence."

Ulm said there was a moment of levity during the emergency.

He said an officer at the scene joked that "instead of shooting himself, he should have used the Taser."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Utah
KEYWORDS: banglist; chiefwiggum; donutwatch
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To: Celtic Conservative

My question is what about Walker and Ulm who where described as disgruntled due to their comments.

Are they going to be turned away for their license for conceal to carry or however you say it?


21 posted on 05/07/2008 6:04:38 AM PDT by Global2010
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To: Abathar
The chief cried, "I'm hit," and fell over. Students who were screaming "Officer down!" were urged to call 911.

Did they get a description of the shooter in all the chaos?

22 posted on 05/07/2008 6:05:59 AM PDT by Sender ("Why is it that I can't just eat my waffle?" - Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: MortMan
Did you mean a two-PART check or a two-PARTY? I ask because I would assume that it is OK to dissassemble and reassemble the pistol while by oneself...

The two party check is for when you are with others

In classes I've gone to, and whenever I teach, we use the two-party check, where the owner of the gun verifies that it is unloaded, and a second party double-checks (by sight and by sticking his finger in the empty chamber) that it is unloaded.

The reason for it is, you need to be double-sure when an error might endanger others.

The reason for checking by sight AND feel is that occasionally people think they see what ought to be there rather than what IS there

23 posted on 05/07/2008 6:10:52 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 ("In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." — George Orwell)
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To: Abathar
The chief cried, "I'm hit," and fell over. Students who were screaming "Officer down!" were urged to call 911. The gun went off in a conference room Saturday at Riverdale police headquarters.

What out the door? 911!!!!!!

24 posted on 05/07/2008 6:12:19 AM PDT by doodad
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To: Fundamentally Fair
but disputed the accounts of Ulm and Walker, describing the pair as "disgruntled."

I would be more than "disgruntled" if I found out that some dipweed had been carelessly waving a loaded gun in my direction during a class

25 posted on 05/07/2008 6:12:35 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 ("In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." — George Orwell)
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To: Abathar

Sounds like too many chiefs here in MA. Largely political hacks with little or no familiarity with firearms.


26 posted on 05/07/2008 6:12:40 AM PDT by pabianice
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To: Global2010
They shouldn't be, as it is obvious that they have a better grip on weapon safety than the chief did. Is their state "shall issue" or do the local chiefs have power over the weapons permit process? I think it's possible that these 2 are "disgruntled" because the police department tried to lean on them to keep them quiet about the incident.

JMHO

27 posted on 05/07/2008 6:19:46 AM PDT by Celtic Conservative ("Minutum Cantorum, Minutum Baloram, Minutum Carboratum Descendam Pantorum")
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To: harpseal; TexasCowboy; nunya bidness; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; Shooter 2.5; wku man; SLB; ..
From his comments, student Lewis Walker appears to know considerably more about firearms than Police Chief Dave Hansen.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

28 posted on 05/07/2008 6:20:22 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: Abathar
Hansen held the Glock 40 under a table to disassemble it when a bullet fired, Walker said

Note the passive voice.

"Hansen held the Glock 40 under a table to disassemble it when he pulled the trigger and shot himself", Walker said

There, fixed it...

29 posted on 05/07/2008 6:23:05 AM PDT by bt_dooftlook (Democrats - the "No Child/Left/Behind" Party)
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To: Abathar

“But I figured he’s the chief, so he must know what he’s doing,”

There is a reason that one of the logical fallacies is “Appeal to Authority.” The folks in the class learned a valuable lesson, both about firearms and life in general.


30 posted on 05/07/2008 6:23:17 AM PDT by ko_kyi
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To: PapaBear3625
Well said. Thanks for the backup. (pun intended)

CC

31 posted on 05/07/2008 6:26:52 AM PDT by Celtic Conservative ("Minutum Cantorum, Minutum Baloram, Minutum Carboratum Descendam Pantorum")
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To: Joe Brower; Eaker; Squantos; humblegunner; DuncanWaring

Another rogue Glock gone bad!
Ban them!


32 posted on 05/07/2008 6:31:03 AM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Abathar
Reminds me of an Academy Commander in the central Ohio area back in the 1980s. He waved a loaded weapon around in several classes in an unsafe manner. Some students filed complaints. This resulted in his academy being placed on probation and he and his instructors threatening the students with failing the academy.

Soon after, this commander had a negligent discharge within inches of a student's head. He lost his academy.

Last I heard, he was training Iraqi police forces in 2003. Shudder!

33 posted on 05/07/2008 6:40:22 AM PDT by Ghengis (Of course freedom is free. If it wasn't, it would be called expensivedom. ~Cindy Sheehan 11/11/06)
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To: Joe Brower

I could argue for gun control on an as needed basis in this case....but I won’t.

Just the standard sarcastic statement that only professionals should be trusted with guns.

Another reason not to rely on the “professionals” for your own protection.


34 posted on 05/07/2008 6:44:40 AM PDT by Califreak (Hangin' with Hunter-under the bus "Dread and Circuses")
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To: Celtic Conservative
Indeed. As your post points out, pulling the trigger is part of the disassembly process. The fact that the doofus in question performed this under the table is a strong indicator that no check was performed, that he assumed the unloaded status of the weapon.
35 posted on 05/07/2008 6:50:53 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (Who Would Montgomery Brewster Choose?)
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To: Abathar

somewhere on the internet there is a video of a drug officer talking to the elementary school kids about the dangers of guns.

He takes out his gun and promptly shoots himself in the foot. Gotta give him credit for being a show biz trooper, however. He says something like, “see there how dangerous this is” while he’s hopping around on one foot.

lmao.


36 posted on 05/07/2008 6:52:53 AM PDT by wildbill
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To: Celtic Conservative

“As My master trainers are fond of saying “you gotta be smarter than the gun you’re carrying””

And...never drive faster than your IQ.


37 posted on 05/07/2008 6:54:12 AM PDT by A Strict Constructionist (We have become an oligarchy not a Republic.)
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To: ko_kyi; Squantos; hiredhand
“Appeal to Authority.”

Yeah, they are required to appease this dickweed for the priveledge of exercising their God given Right...

for the unneccesary ccw, a simple form with the question...'Have you ever shot anyone while dis-assembling a firearm?'...

No...= 'grant' the permit

yes...= ...please send resume to "chief of police", PO box...

LFOD...

38 posted on 05/07/2008 6:54:15 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Choose Liberty over slavery... the gulag awaits ANY compromise with evil...LiveFReeOr Die...)
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To: Abathar
Hansen held the Glock 40...

No such thing. A glock .40 SW caliber perhaps?

39 posted on 05/07/2008 6:54:59 AM PDT by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: Abathar
Is it a requirement to yell, "Officer Down!"? Why can't you just say, "Some guy just shot himself in the ankle!"

I'm a graphic designer. From now on when I get shot, I want everybody to yell, "Graphic Designer down!"

40 posted on 05/07/2008 6:57:38 AM PDT by Drawsing (The fool shows his annoyance at once. The prudent man overlooks an insult. (Proverbs 12:16))
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