8mm
Posted on 05/05/2008 4:22:34 PM PDT by wagglebee
I believe you are mistaken. The Bible is full of stories of people who murdered others, including King David. Yet he was one of God's favorites.
Even on the cross, Jesus asked God to forgive his murderers. I don't think he would have asked if it were impossible.
Others have mentioned Paul's role in the murder of Stephen and others.
I'm not familiar with any scripture that says or even implies that murder is unforgivable. If one repents and is born again, he is born again with his sins forgiven. Certain denominations may teach different things, but I think the scriptural basis for such a pronouncement is at best shakey.
Wasn’t it the gay rights people last year that wanted to eliminate Mother’s Day? They claimed it was unfair to lesbian couples or some BS like that.
Killing and murder are not the same thing. All murders are killings. But not all killings are murders.
You are quite mistaken in your assertion that murder and suicide are unforgiveable. If God is the final arbitor of what is or is not forgiveable, Jesus Christ plainly states that blaspheming the Holy Spirit is the only unpardonable sin. “And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in his age or in the age to come.”(Matthew 12: 31-32) Christ himself said it. Blaspheming the Holy Spirit happens when the miracles of God are attributed to Satan. Only ignorant and foolish people said that Jesus was casting our demons by Beelzebub (the prince of demons - a.k.a. Satan). His answer to them ought to sober anyone up who pretends to know what can and cannot be forgiven.
Remember also that the Lord’s prayer also says “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.” The teaching Jesus relates to this prayer is very illustrative. “For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
(Matthew 6:14-15)
“Please include miscarriages; those would-be mothers hurt too, sometimes for a lifetime.”
I’m so glad you brought that up! Even though I have four children, I ache for the ones I lost. I will pray for all of these women and for those that wish they could have children but are unable to for whatever reason.
I'm not making this stuff up. So you can quit trying to scold me as if I alone am attempting to set a rule you don't like. And pointing out that I'm not qualified to determine anyone's judgment in the here after is hardly proof that I'm wrong about this or that you are right.
The only thing I know that is unpardonable is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, according to Scripture.
It is sad that any woman would be sad on Mother’s Day for something she did. Prayers for all who have to live in that state - I know a couple of them myself.
True, but not relevant to the point I was making.
Because the perp is also deceased, and incapable of repenting.
Cold blooded pre meditated murder is unforgiveable.
False. Show me that anywhere in Scripture or Tradition.
Who are you to presume to say what is or is not forgiveable. You will answer to God for that - not me. There is still time to repent and I hope and pray you do. Your judgement will be on your own head and that scares me. You still have not answered the WORD of God on this issue. I don’t care what a group of men or women has “determined” to be true. Jesus said “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except by me.” What THE TRUTH has said, that is what I hold to be true. Deal with that. Do not attack me for what Jesus says. Go to Him with your complaint. And while you are at it, let the dead bury the dead.
I think that “traditional” is the key word here - and in Catholic tradition, you would be correct. I am a practicing Catholic and, although I certainly don’t speak for anyone but myself, I prefer to assume that a suicide is an act of mental illness or defect which can severely limit or even eliminate one’s ability to make accountable moral choices. But the Scriptural quotes to the effect that ony “blasphemy of the Holy Spirit” is unforgiveable are, from my reading, accurate. Tradition and Scripture don’t always line up and, when that happens, Scripture is what I go by.
“The God I serve is a forgiving God. The men who killed President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. can be forgiven. Everyone can come to the mercy seat and find forgiveness and acceptance. But, and this may be the essence of my argument, suppose one is so hard-hearted and so in-different to life until he assumes that there is nothing for which to be forgiven. What happens to the mind of a person, and the moral fabric of a nation, that accepts the aborting of the life of a baby without a pang of conscience? What kind of a person, and what kind of a society will we have 20 years hence if life can be taken so casually? It is that question, the question of our attitude, our value system, and our mind-set with regard to the nature and worth of life itself that is the central question confronting mankind. Failure to answer that question affirmatively may leave us with a hell right here on earth.”
I share your concerns for the larger picture and the broader attitudes of society as a whole. Yet, I am only one person and only responsible for my own attitudes. In a sense, I’ve found it necessary for me to step back from the argument and debate. It’s mostly a question of what is both most useful to others as well as most healthy for me. Learning to “live in the light” and speak the words as whatever situation might might arise and, most important, trusting God to lead in all of it. After 20 years away from it, my life is moving back to songwriting and maybe that’s where I’m best suited to carry whatever message I’m entrusted with. It’s all very “developmentally in process” and none of it is really clear to me just yet. I do know that the stresses of debating or even listening to the various talk show hosts finally grew to a point that it was damaging to me personally and spiritually - not to mention that it was about as useful as trying to teach my dog to read. One of my first of my new and growing catalogue of songs is called “A Dream A Lot Like Mine” which is a little different approach to this topic. If you click on http://www.myspace.com/emmettgrayson, that is the first one which will come up. It’s my effort towards “winning hearts and minds” in my own little way.
I think that your dream of songwriting is really admirable, and if that is your way of carrying messages to people around you, then keep at it! I am only 12 years old, but I really appreciate your music!
Thank you. The fact that you’re only 12 and yet showing such great thoughtfulness about all these various subjects, especially abortion, is both a new hope for people of new generation as well as a credit to both yourself and those who are raising you. I applaud all concerned.
Now, also about only being 12 and appreciating my music - that is far more important than you might realize. I’m 58 and am in the unusually fortunate position of having my teenage children genuinely like my songs. It’s not just a joy to the “old man”, which is actually what’s important to me, but it’s also a good indicator of how successful a song might be in the marketplace. So, because of your young age, your opinion is more important than you might think. Thank you again for your kind words.
Your welcome! :)
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