Judge orders FLDS newborn into state custody

Chron.com ^ | May 1, 2008 | MICHELLE ROBERTS

[Politicalmom]

SAN ANTONIO — A judge ordered that the baby boy born to a girl taken from a polygamist sect's ranch in West Texas be placed in state custody, according to documents released Thursday.

Texas District Judge Barbara Walther signed the order Wednesday giving the state custody of the 1-day-old infant born to a teen believed to be 15 or 16 years old.

The girl has claimed to be 18, according to an affidavit signed by Ruby Gutierrez, a Child Protective Services caseworker, but officials believe she is younger and placed her in foster care with other children taken from the ranch.

The newborn is the teen's second child; the first is a 20-month-old boy. The father of both children was identified as Jackson Jessop, 22, but state officials say they don't know his whereabouts.

Child welfare officials now have 464 children in their custody, swept from the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado because authorities believe underage girls were forced into marriages and sex with older men. Authorities are also now investigating possible sexual abuse of boys.

Church members have vehemently denied there was any abuse, and civil liberties groups have raised concerns at the sweeping nature of the removals.

Individual custody hearings are set to be completed by June 5.

CPS and law enforcement raided the ranch on April 3 after a girl who was purportedly 16 called a domestic abuse hotline to complain of abuse at the hands her much older husband. Authorities are investigating whether the calls were a hoax.

Regardless, child welfare authorities say 31 of the 53 girls aged 14-17 have children or are pregnant.

Under Texas law, children under the age of 17 generally cannot consent to sex with an adult. A girl can get married with parental permission at 16, but the girls who belong to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are not believed to have legal marriages.

FLDS is a breakaway sect of the mainline Mormon church, which disavowed polygamy a century ago.

[najida]

Its because slavery, rape and false imprisonment are illegal.

[Politicalmom]

Gee. The Sheriff didn’t believe some man on a cell phone was telling the truth. He could be on a cell phone with an Arizona area code, calling from inside the compound. It could have been somebody else. He could have been the wrong Dale Barlow.
(There were several on the compound.)The girl could have been lied to about the identity of her “husband”.

Plus they were still hunting for the girl. Whether or not the man was there, the other person on the warrant was still being sought.

[greyfoxx39]

They have a distant family connection to me and believe that their sense of humor is appropriate. They don’t understand subtlety. And even if they do catch the hint that I am disgusted by the contents of the emails, it would only hurt their feelings and cause a rift

I guess then, you wouldn't consider using the "block" feature of your email? This does appear to be stalking to me.

One thing I had to learn is that some people ONLY have the power over me that I allow them. That's sometimes difficult for women to realize.

[Politicalmom]

I set up a rule for such people’s emails. If you might want some of their emails, send them to a folder, then periodically check the folder for any personal emails, then just delete the rest.

If you don’t want any of them, send them directly to the garbage.

[MissouriConservative]

"Condescension on your part does not cover for your poor position, nor does feigned ignorance lend credence to your ludicrous assertion that one series of phone calls launched this investigation."

No condescension and definitely no ignorance, unless it's on your part.

One phone call....warrant. The authorities may have had other "evidence" but it was not, I guess, enough for a warrant. The warrant, if I read it right, was based on a now false phone call. If the warrant is found to be "bad" then all evidence found based on that warrant is bad.

Here, I will even help you, sorry I can't read it to you but maybe you can find someone who can.

LINK

"Oh really? where on this compound was no allegation made? The former members of the cult who have escaped or been cast out allege that polygamy is within the entire cult. And the theology of the cult is that each man needs three wives for entry into heaven, so where is this no allegation family on the compound that you are trying to come up with?"

Try reading the testimony of some of the women who had their children ripped from them. They are in monogamous marriages, were married after they were 20, and they had their children removed. Why? Of course you wouldn't ask that question because you follow in lockstep with the state on this one. Try, again, to read this....

"One FLDS member who did testify said she and her husband and their three children form a traditional family and live in a separate house from other sect members. An FLDS expert who testified at the hearing and a former member of the sect say only about half the marriages in the sect are polygamous."

LINK

"I assume that you meant them and I called you on their implications. Your threat, is getting you a post to the moderator."

No threat. I was merely stating that if you had said what you said, and I quote from your post to me, "Your position that the children should not be protected and the sexual abuse of children investigated is directed against each of these individuals as much as it is against the government." If had said to my face that my position was that children should not be protected from sexual abuse, I would have poked you in the nose. Didn't threaten to do anything, I don't know you from Adam. Now if you want to take it that way and then run and cry to someone else, you're free to do it.

You seriously need to read up on this before you go off emotionally and make a complete fool of yourself, but it's too late for that isn't it?

[MissouriConservative]

From what I’ve gathered, the Sheriff also heard from the parole officer of the man in question. It all calls into question the validity of the warrant.

[MissouriConservative]

I’m thinking you misunderstood what I was saying. Did CPS have proof that the monogamous couples were abusing their children? That is not what this was about was it? I’m assuming that it was about men sleeping with underage girls that were supposed to be their wives, not monogamous couples who didn’t practice polygamy.

[Politicalmom]

There was at least one underage mother/pregnancy in every dwelling on the compound. I don’t care what they claim. Being “monogamous” doesn’t mean you didn’t give your daughter to an old man to be raped, and doesn’t mean that the “monogamous” wife wasn’t statutorily raped.

The law is if one child is endangered, they all go. I don’t understand why the number is a big deal. Number has no bearing. If it had been 2 children, they would have taken 2.

[Politicalmom]

He talked to the parole officer AFTER the raid. And I’ll take Marci Hamilton’s opinion on the validity of the warrants over yours.

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20080501.html

[MissouriConservative]

"Being “monogamous” doesn’t mean you didn’t give your daughter to an old man to be raped, and doesn’t mean that the “monogamous” wife wasn’t statutorily raped."

You're assuming an awful lot with that statement aren't you? I do believe the woman testified that she wasn't married until after she was 20. But I guess she's just a brainwashed cult member who lies under oath huh? And I've not heard that every dwelling in the compound contained an underage girl who was pregnant or a mother.

"The law is if one child is endangered, they all go. "

I'm not sure that's what Texas law states. Here is the Texas statue.

LINK

[pandoraou812]

The support of the FLDS is just wild IMHO. The FLDS is widely known to be a polygamy group whose vile leader has already been found guilty & is going to face more trials. Warren Jeffs is known to have made underage marriages etc...

If a call is made to CPS then they MUST go in. If CPS sees a problem even unrelated to the call they must act upon what they see. Which they did do. I don't know why so many can't understand that or don't want to understand it. If CPS can come to your house or mine then they have every right to go the YFZ ranch.

[Politicalmom]

The presence of underaged pregnancies/mothers in every building was testified to in one of the hearings.

It was also testified that there was no possible way to keep all the children safe by leaving them at the cult compound.

There are too many buildings, too many ways to escape....

They couldn’t even keep the cult members from herding children around to keep them away from the inspectors. How could they possibly supervise the children adequately?

[metmom]

I almost made a similar comment but decided that if he was going to be that stupid, he had it coming.

[pandoraou812]

WE seem to be repeating ourselves all the time don't we? Plain fact is everyone can go on & on about the big bad govt but TX went in & did its job. Too bad for the ones who are so mad. I always thought people wanted to protect children, at least most people. Wow am I shocked at the amount that see no evil or wrong doing....It is scary.

Can you imagine if Sheriff Joe Aparo of Maricopa AZ had gone into YFZ? lmao

[TigersEye]

The document in the first link you give in post #665 shows two separate warrants issued on separate dates based on separate sources of information.

[CindyDawg]

I'm tired of arguing with them. It seems like every night a new protester shows up.

[Alice in Wonderland]

Have you checked out the Bishop's list yet? There's one 67-year-old guy, Wendell Loy Nielson (pages 14 & 15). At his age he's entitled to social security benefits for himself, and his minor children . . . all 32 of them.

[pandoraou812]

TE, it is like beating a dead mule. The FLDS supporters will try every which way to justify their points. The real issue is that there ARE young pregnant underage girls. Against the law in TX on the YFZ ranch. TX went & took the children out. It seems clear enough to me that CPS saw enough to take all of them.

Now what I would like to know is what the big deal is going to give your DNA? You take my child I will gladly prove she is mine. You will see me jump to be first in line. If I have done no wrong I have no fears. CPS doesn't want to kidnap children. It did its job which is to protect children. And I might add they have tried to give the FLDS children as much of their lifestyle that they are used too as possible. Most children aren't given that.

The way I am seeing it now is that the FLDS knows it did wrong & we know that they did wrong because of the pregnant girls. So let CPS & TX sort it out. The FLDS who refuse DNA & lied about what child belonged to who & tried to lie to CPS are wrong. If they have done nothing wrong then they have nothing to fear. However I tend to think its very strange that parents are not doing as CPS asks. It seems simple enough to me. Do what they ask & it will be over with sooner. Shaking my head.

[the808bass]

Emotionalism is a dangerous thing and you’re living proof of that.

Emotionalism can be used in any argument, for or against this government action. In my opinion, your posts on this subject do not overflow with a tone of detached logic.

[the808bass]

I'm tired of arguing with them. It seems like every night a new protester shows up.

I am not as trusting. There may be new screennames. But not all of these are distinct posters.