Posted on 04/30/2008 8:40:44 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar
ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) - State police in northeastern New Mexico have removed four children from the compound of an apocalyptic church, whose leader claims to be the Messiah and acknowledges having sex with followers.
State Children, Youth and Families Department spokeswoman Romaine Serna says the three girls and one boy—all under the age of 18—were taken from the compound in the days after an April 22 investigation.
Serna says the children were put in state custody because of allegations of inappropriate contact between minors and the adult leader of The Lord Our Righteousness Church.
Wayne Bent, known in the church as Michael Travesser, established the church at a site called Strong City in the rural norteastern corner of the state.
He alleges the children were kidnapped by the state.
Reading their history the initial group had 300 people at Redding CA (where they grow MJ in the national forests, particularly in old clear-cut areas ~ which is why I imagine these folks moved away).
This is a splinter group of a splinter group so it's fairly small ~ probably smaller than David Koresh' group. So how many kids would they have at the moment?
Probably not many, and there they are.
Like I said earlier, the gov’t turns a blind eye until they “decide” it is in the childrens best interest. That is why due process is important so spare me your “righteous” adjudication.
***There is mention of an investigation ahead of the seizure,***
The authorities had search warrants in TX. So where’s the mention of the search warrant used in this NM case?
There was investigation in ElDorado as well. They’d been investigating this group for four years.
The authorities interviewed people for hours before deciding to remove anyone. This whole thing went on for a couple days before all the kids were removed.
52 Girls Removed From Texas Compound
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1997293/posts
This just in — Conflict escalates at polygamist retreat (who woulda thought?)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1997473/posts
The authorities had search warrants in TX and the leaders refused to allow them to enter. Can’t do that.
The article says nothing about how many people live at the compound.
But did you even look at the link another poster gave to the web site for the church?
It says that this settlement is home to the entire set of church members, which would mean multiple families with multiple children.
It doesn’t say exactly how many.
But in that writeup, it says this:
“In February of 2004, a considerable force of New Mexico State Police, accompanied by the Union County Sheriff and state (CYFD) social workers, made an unannounced visit to Strong City. They separated children from their parents and questioned them. Despite the intrusion, the visit was cordial and uneventful. The police told members of the church that they had received reports from relatives of church members that a mass-suicide was planned for April. Again, police left satisfied that the reports were unfounded.”
Again, multiple children, multiple parents.
So your statement that “They took all the children from all the parents” seems to be an unfounded statement. If you think otherwise, provide a link.
It would be nice if we could limit guesses labeled as fact to the FLDS thread, and not let them propagate to other threads.
Thread nanny alert and
NM Ping
If you want on or off the NM Ping list, please FReepmail me.
Access to the ping list is available to anyone by going to my FR home page.
It has nothing to do with how many people are there. It has everything to do with the fact that there WAS an investigation before the kids were taken in TX as well; the main point which you have totally missed, intentionally or not.
Don’t see anything but put me on this one as well.
But it also provides an (again indirect) clue that there may not have been other minor children. New Mexico police remove 4 children from church compound
Wayne Bent, who is in his 60s and is known in the church as Michael Travesser, established the church at a rural site called Strong City, north of Clayton in extreme northeastern New Mexico. It has at least 70 members, Serna said.And here the story mentions education of "the children", which certainly implies general church membership with children:
The group educates its children "to avoid the slavery you seek to impose on them, and to experience the freedom they have in God," Jeff Bent wrote.ALSO, the 4 children seized were NOT all HIS children, so it's clear this was not just a compound for the man and his family, but that other children from other families were at the compound:"We have given everything to prepare them for an eternity with God. We haven't oppressed them with your atheistic globalist curriculum, socialist indoctrination, and 'alternative lifestyles' dogma that comprise modern public education. We have taught them higher values than the values of your slave-state, and have sought to shield them from the abuse that is institutionalized in your system," he wrote.
Serna said two of the children were placed in foster homes, one was returned to her parents who do not live at the compound, and the fourth accepted voluntary placement, which usually means with a friend or relative.
Here's the part that leaves a question:
I understand that it was very calm and they (state police) did not meet with any resistance," she said. Serna said she wasn't aware of any other youths at the compound.Of course, she could have meant she wasn't aware of any PROBLEMS with other youth, or simply that she had only been told of the 4 that were seized, and therefore had the same problem we have here -- no direct evidence of how many children were at the compound.
Serna was NOT involved in the seizure, or the investigation. She is just the spokesperson.
On the other hand, if they had TOLD her there were no other children at the compound, she would have SAID there were none, rather than saying she was not aware of any.
So while we still can't make a definitive statement that there were other children at the compound, all the evidence we have points to the existance of other families.
Meanwhile, I'll watch for more stories that might give direct statements of the number of adults and children living at the compound. In the meantime, I would implore people not to make blanket assertions about the numbers.
In the FLDS threads, by the time the truth came out about the number of kids, and the ratio boys to girls, SO MANY unfounded numbers were posted that I am betting that if I took a poll on FR, a majority of Freepers would get the answer WRONG.
No matter what your position on these cases, I hope we can all agree that the primary goal of FR should be to EDUCATE the readers with FACTS, not mislead them to thinking things that are not true.
When the states go after Planned Parenthood, for not reporting the adult males who impregnate underage girls, then I will say, what took them so long.
I wonder how long the wait will be?
Maybe there is a lot more information than what is in the current stories.
But all we get from the stories is that the leader has acknowledged sleeping with other member’s wives. It doesn’t say he MARRIED them.
If that is the case, this wouldn’t be polygamy, just garden-variety adultery.
Sex with Cylons doesn’t count.
Hey, do you know how hard it is to find a date in Northern New Mexico?
You almost have to start a church or something.
The link you posted said there were 70 people in this church.
And the pictures on the web site you linked included people who looked like children.
At least one of the 4 children taken was a guest in the compound, whose parents were not at the compound.
We need more information before we can state as fact that they took away all their children.
Funny how we can read the same history and conclude different things. I just find it hard to imagine a church of 70 people where only the leader has children.
(Oh, the 70 people was not on the church web site, it was in a different article about the group).
Didn’t David Koresh’s group have 21 children?
There were 21 on site, and others off site who ‘survived’ post Koresh.
If asking that people don’t claim as facts things they don’t know is being a “thread nanny”, then we need more of them here at FR.
I consider the proper labelling of fact vs opinion to be the key to the site having value.
I guess some here think it’s better to get people to agree with them, then to worry about freepers who are given false information. I generally think that conservatives are more concerned with the facts, and the liberals more with tricking people into agreeing with them.
I know what you are saying- I have to keep reminding myself about rights of the accused- when I really want them castrated and hung in the town square.
Hey, do you know how hard it is to find a date in Northern New Mexico? You almost have to start a church or something.
NOW THAT'S FUNNY!!!
The FLDS don’t usually dump the boys until they’re 14 or 15, and often keep them longer as long as they away from the communities providing cash-generating slave labor for the cult leaders outside businesses. If they’re still under cult control into their late teens, the minute they complain about having to do all this work, and still not getting the promised wives (while the leaders have dozens apiece), they’re thrown out. In the group removed from the YFZ ranch, the ratio of children 14 or older is 3 girls for every boy (53 girls, 17 boys).
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