Posted on 04/30/2008 5:59:16 AM PDT by Crim
I did not say we should stop there. In any event, trying him is not up to me or you.
“I’m not quibbling about anything. “
Your posts give me the impression that you are. Perhaps I’m mistaken.
Your point that the leash may or may not have been used is only relevant to the punishment phase of a trial. It doesn’t change what he did, only the severity of it.
He abused public property. Anyone else would be charged with assault and animal abuse. Forget firing, he should be charged. And while we’re at it we should look to his superiors that failed to take significant and meaningful action until this because a public spectacle.
I believe the lead charge should be the NC equivalent of criminal assault on a police officer. In my opinion, he should be charged if the DA believes the case can be made under NC law.
Ach!
I was trying to type:
...the NC equivalent of criminal battery on a police officer.
“Judges are not supposed to base their decisions on public opinion. Judges are supposed to follow the law. “
Yes and we can all see how well this is working. Judges are elected and should hear from the people they represent. the reality is judges do hear from other people. Typically its a very small circle of activists though.
Heck we have Supreme Court justices looking at the law and court decisions of other countries before making a ruling. At least we should be able to compete with that.
“In any event, trying him is not up to me or you. “
Correct, its up to the DA who is another elected official.
“As bad as kicking a dog is, is it really national news?”
Maybe. People who abuse animals almost always progress to criminal behavior toward people. It’s bad enough when a civilian does it, but police, who have so much power and control, should be held to a higher level. This sadistic guy WILL hurt someone later, expecting to be protected by his badge.
He didn’t pull its legs off, he kicked it. He didn’t even bite it.
First of all you're misreading my post. I said that IF he strung the dog up by the neck that's horrible and unacceptable. BUT the article isn't clear (and neither is the video) about whether the dog was hanging by his leash BECAUSE he had it in his teeth (tug of war) or because he was strung up by his neck. If he was strung up by his neck and was kicking the dog for fun than clearly that's not right. But if the dog wouldn't let go of the leash and the guy was trying to make him let go than it's would seem to be understandable.
So the fact he could not get it to release would mean two things 1) its been very poorly trained, and 2) its not safe to use as a police dog. The long and short of it is this department encourages this kind of behavior and has an outrageous double standard. Guess thats nothing new in the modern world of law enforcement.
Well I haven't given up on law enforcement which is why I'm willing to cut the guy some slack. He may have been a poor trainer, but he's not an abusive monster if the facts are as I state.
Well if you've got it in your head that it's "abuse" then the argument is lost. But if he was trying to make the dog let go with it's teeth by sweeping the dogs legs from underneath him (which looked like what he was doing to me) than that's different. Probably not a good training technique but certainly not the abusive sadist everyone is making him out to be.
Geez, what are the hiring standards these days, “able to fog a mirror”???? Even the Nazi’s at Auschwitz treated their dogs kindly. Power attracts the corrupt I guess.
You have got to be kidding! What has this whole thread been about??? There are an awful lot of people for whom this is an issue of abuse of this dog - working or not. Now, according to you, he wasn’t kicking the dog - he was merely “sweeping the legs from underneath him”. That’s fine. However you want to rationalize this behavior to make it ok in your mind....
Nice Deuce.
;>)
“I said that IF he strung the dog up by the neck that’s horrible and unacceptable.”
Did you read the article or perchance watch the video. It shows him doing it. He admits that he did it. There was at least one witness to his actions. What else would it require to convince you that he did it?
“But if the dog wouldn’t let go of the leash and the guy was trying to make him let go than it’s would seem to be understandable.”
Understandable to string the dog up and kick it? Again, what will this accomplish?
“Well I haven’t given up on law enforcement which is why I’m willing to cut the guy some slack.”
People who will excuse this kind of behavior are why I am extremely critical of law enforcement in general.
“He may have been a poor trainer, but he’s not an abusive monster if the facts are as I state.”
The facts aren’t as you state. Please read the article and watch the video. Pay special attention to the witness and admission by the abuser.
Amen to that! Reading of how he Kicked his Faithful Partner Brought Tears to my Eyes and also Infuriated me; how can People be So Unfeeling and Cruel? :( :( :(
Whats amazing is that if a normal person tells a police dog to shut up its animal abuse and assault. A police officer can kick his hanging dog and some folks are happy to look the other way.
If a police officer kicks a pregnant womans (excuse me, sweeps her legs out) is that abusive?
Dogs aren’t people but I’m just trying to figure out where the lines are so I don’t end up hanging by a leash getting kicked in the ribs.
Herndon said Jones was trying to get Ricoh to release a piece of fire hose that he was using as a toy. First, Jones swung the dog in a circle in a technique known as "helicoptering." The dog was swung in such force that it became airborne.
Herndon testified that he did not object to the helicoptering but did become concerned when Jones took Ricoh by the leash and suspended him from the railing.
"He had his back to me, and he began kicking the dog," Herndon said. He said he did not think Jones was trying intentionally to hurt the dog, and he praised Jones' skills as a dog trainer.
We have 15 seconds of hundreds (thousands?) hours of training. The guy who was there, who knows the man personally, praised his skill as a dog trainer and didn't think he meant to hurt the dog.
His purpose seemed to be to teach the dog to release something it didn't want to release. That's a dangerous habit for a working dog that could lead to it's death or the death of someone else in the field. Now clearly you want to want to make a judgment based on 15 seconds of video. That's your right. But I'm not going to judge that he's a sadistic monster based on 15 seconds of grainy out of context video.
Yes, some are engaging in a practice that is completely wrong and a travesty to our system of government. That doesn't mean that we return in kind.
“His purpose seemed to be to teach the dog to release something it didn’t want to release.”
If the dog won’t release then it doesn’t need to be a police dog, period.
You copied the sections regarding helicoptering but conveniently missed the kicking part. Or is a boot to the ribs a leg sweep in law enforcement circles?
“Now clearly you want to want to make a judgment based on 15 seconds of video. “
“But I’m not going to judge that he’s a sadistic monster based on 15 seconds of grainy out of context video.”
What would it take? An hour of him kicking the dog? He admitted to doing it and yet you continue to make excuses for him. I’m guessing you are connected to law enforcement.
“Yes, some are engaging in a practice that is completely wrong and a travesty to our system of government. That doesn’t mean that we return in kind. “
Ok you can continue to fail to hold your elected officials responsible. I hold a different opinion.
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