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A Blood Libel on Our Civilization. Can I expell Expelled?
National Review Online ^ | April 28, 2008 | John Derbyshire

Posted on 04/28/2008 12:01:40 PM PDT by Delacon

What on earth has happened to Ben Stein? He and I go back a long way. No, I’ve never met the guy. Back in the 1970s, though, when The American Spectator was in its broadsheet format, I would always turn first to Ben Stein’s diary, which appeared in every issue. He was funny and clever and worldly in a way I liked a lot. The very few times I’ve caught him on-screen, he seems to have had a nice line in deadpan self-deprecation, also something I like. Though I’ve never met him, I know people who know him, and they all speak well of him. Larry Kudlow, whose opinion is worth a dozen average opinions on any topic, thinks the world of Ben.

So what’s going on here with this stupid Expelled movie? No, I haven’t seen the dang thing. I’ve been reading about it steadily for weeks now though, both pro (including the pieces by David Klinghoffer and Dave Berg on National Review Online) and con, and I can’t believe it would yield up many surprises on an actual viewing. It’s pretty plain that the thing is creationist porn, propaganda for ignorance and obscurantism. How could a guy like this do a thing like that?

I turned over some possibilities, but decisively rejected them all. The first thing that came to mind was Saudi money. Half of the evils and absurdities in our society seem to have a Saudi prince behind them somewhere, and the Wahhabists are, like all fundamentalist Muslims, committed creationists. This doesn’t hold water, though. For one thing, Stein is Jewish. For another, he is rich, and doesn’t need the money. And for another, the stills and clips I have seen are from a low-budget production. Saudi financing would surely at least have come up with some decent computer graphics. No, Ben Stein is no crook. He must then be foolish; and that’s sad, because I now think less of a guy I once admired, and whom my friends admire. Life, it’s just one darn bubble bursting after another.

To return to the matter of computer graphics for a moment, it seems that the producers of Expelled, rather than go to the trouble and expense of making their own, may have just stolen some. (The creationists have posted a defense here. There will probably be a lawsuit under way, which I shall report back on. Oh, and as I write this, I see a Reuters report that our defenders of faith and morality may have stolen some music too. How many more shoes will drop, I wonder?) It is at any rate clear that they engaged in much deception with the subjects they interviewed for the movie, many of whom are complaining loudly. This, together with much, much else about the movie, can be read about on the Expelled Exposed website put up by the National Center for Science Education, which I urge all interested readers to explore.

These dishonesties do not surprise me. When talking about the creationists to people who don’t follow these controversies closely, I have found that the hardest thing to get across is the shifty, low-cunning aspect of the whole modern creationist enterprise. Individual creationists can be very nice people, though they get nicer the further away they are from the full-time core enterprise of modern creationism at the Discovery Institute. The enterprise as a whole, however, really doesn’t smell good. You notice this when you’re around it a lot. I shall give some more examples in a minute; but what accounts for all this dishonesty and misrepresentation?

My own theory is that the creationists have been morally corrupted by the constant effort of pretending not to be what they are. What they are, as is amply documented, is a pressure group for religious teaching in public schools.

Now, there is nothing wrong with that. We are a nation of pressure groups, and one more would hardly notice. However, since parents who want their kids religiously educated already have plenty of private and parochial schools to choose from (half the kids on my street have attended parochial school), as well as the option of home schooling, now very well organized and supported (and heartily approved of by me: I just wish I knew how they find the time); and since current jurisprudence, how correctly I am not competent to say, regards tax-funded religious instruction as unconstitutional; creationists are a pressure group without hope, if they campaign openly for the thing they want.

Understanding this, the creationists took the morally fatal decision to campaign clandestinely. They overhauled creationism as “intelligent design,” roped in a handful of eccentric non-Christian cranks keen for a well-funded vehicle to help them push their own flat-earth theories, and set about presenting themselves to the public as “alternative science" engaged in a “controversy” with a closed-minded, reactionary “science establishment” fearful of new ideas. (Ignoring the fact that without a constant supply of new ideas, there would be nothing for scientists to do.) Nothing to do with religion at all!

I think this willful act of deception has corrupted creationism irredeemably. The old Biblical creationists were, in my opinion, wrong-headed, but they were mostly honest people. The “intelligent design” crowd lean more in the other direction. Hence the dishonesty and sheer nastiness, even down to plain bad manners, that you keep encountering in ID circles. It’s by no means all of them, but it’s enough to corrupt and poison the creationist enterprise, which might otherwise have added something worthwhile to our national life, if only by way of entertainment value.

This dishonesty showed up very soon after the creationists decided to don the mask of “alternative science” in the 1990s. A key episode was the Kunming conference of June 1999. In very brief — you can read the full story in Forrest and Gross’s Creationisms Trojan Horse (“A bad book, a very bad book,” shuddered the Discovery Institute’s Bruce Chapman when he saw it on my desk, like a vampire spotting a clove of garlic), pp.56-66 — there is a very interesting bed of extremely old fossils near Kunming, in southern China. Paul Chien, a little-known creationist of Chinese ancestry from San Francisco, acted as a front man for the Discovery Institute to organize a conference in Kunming, bringing in professional paleontologists from China and abroad, but without telling them of the Discovery Institute’s involvement. The aim was “to produce and then to promote a book containing the conference papers of [creationist] members immediately juxtaposed to those written by respected scientists in the relevant fields.” (Forrest & Gross, their italics.) When the real paleontologists found out what was going on, and how they had been brought across China, or around the world, they were not pleased. Embarrassing scenes followed. No book ever appeared.


Examples can be multiplied. The witty and mild-mannered federal Judge Jones, who presided over the 2005 Kitzmiller trial in Dover, Pa., felt moved to note that: “The citizens of the Dover area were poorly served by the members of the Board who voted for the ID Policy. It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy.” The response of the Discovery Institute was to launch sneering, slanderous attacks on the professionalism and competence of Judge Jones (a church-going conservative Republican appointed by President George W. Bush).

So it goes with the stalwart defenders of truth and morality over at the Discovery Institute. So it goes with Ben Stein, apparently, since he has signed up with these mountebanks, for reasons that remain mysterious to me. The misrepresentations in Expelled are far too numerous for me to list here, and the task is unnecessary since others have done it. The aforementioned Expelled Exposed website is a great resource. Biologist P. Z. Myers, in a less organized way, has been pointing up the errors and deceptions in Expelled since the wretched thing hove into view. (Here he links to a whole stack of reviews, including a couple of positives.) Other science-literate bloggers have been weighing in, often very angrily. One of my favorite comments came from “Pixy Misa” (Andrew Mazels) who correctly called Ben Stein's accusing Darwin of responsibility for the Holocaust “a blood libel on science.”

I would actually go further than that, to something like “a blood libel on Western Civilization.” One of the most-quoted remarks by one conservative writer about another was Evelyn Waugh's on Kipling. It bears quoting again.

[Kipling] was a conservative in the sense that he believed civilization to be something laboriously achieved which was only precariously defended. He wanted to see the defences fully manned and he hated the liberals because he thought them gullible and feeble, believing in the easy perfectibility of man and ready to abandon the work of centuries for sentimental qualms.

Western civilization has many glories. There are the legacies of the ancients, in literature and thought. There are the late-medieval cathedrals, those huge miracles of stone, statuary, and spiritual devotion. There is painting, music, the orderly cityscapes of Renaissance Italy, the peaceful, self-governed townships of old New England and the Frontier, the steel marvels of the early industrial revolution, our parliaments and courts of law, our great universities with their spirit of restless inquiry.

And there is science, perhaps the greatest of all our achievements, because nowhere else on earth did it appear. China, India, the Muslim world, all had fine cities and systems of law, architecture and painting, poetry and prose, religion and philosophy. None of them ever accomplished what began in northwest Europe in the later 17th century, though: a scientific revolution. Thoughtful men and women came together in learned societies to compare notes on their observations of the natural world, to test their ideas in experiments, and in reasoned argument against the ideas of others, and to publish their results in learned journals. A body of common knowledge gradually accumulated. Patterns were observed, laws discerned and stated.

If I write with more feeling than usual here it is because I have just shipped off a review to an editor (for another magazine) of Gino Segrè’s new book about the history of quantum mechanics. It’s a good, if not very remarkable, book giving pen-portraits of the great players in physics during the 1920s and 1930s, and of their meetings and disagreements. Segrè, a particle physicist himself, who has been around for a while, knew some of these people personally, and of course heard many anecdotes from their intellectual descendants. It's a “warm” book, full of feeling for the scientists and their magnificent enterprise, struggling with some of the most difficult problems the human intellect has ever confronted, striving with all their powers to understand what can barely be understood.

Gino Segrè’s book — and, of course, hundreds like it (I have, ahem, dabbled myself) brings to us a feeling for what the scientific endeavor is like, and how painfully its triumphs are won, with what sweat and tears. Our scientific theories are the crowning adornments of our civilization, towering monuments of intellectual effort, built from untold millions of hours of observation, measurement, classification, discussion, and deliberation. This is quite apart from their wonderful utility — from the light, heat, and mobility they give us, the drugs and the gadgets and the media. (A “thank you” wouldn’t go amiss.) Simply as intellectual constructs, our well-established scientific theories are awe-inspiring.

And now here is Ben Stein, sneering and scoffing at Darwin, a man who spent decades observing and pondering the natural world — that world Stein glimpses through the window of his automobile now and then, when he’s not chattering into his cell phone. Stein claims to be doing it in the name of an alternative theory of the origin of species: Yet no such alternative theory has ever been presented, nor is one presented in the movie, nor even hinted at. There is only a gaggle of fools and fraudsters, gaping and pointing like Apaches on seeing their first locomotive: “Look! It moves! There must be a ghost inside making it move!”

The “intelligent design” hoax is not merely non-science, nor even merely anti-science; it is anti-civilization. It is an appeal to barbarism, to the sensibilities of those Apaches, made by people who lack the imaginative power to know the horrors of true barbarism. (A thing that cannot be said of Darwin. See Chapter X of Voyage of the Beagle.)

And yes: When our greatest achievements are blamed for our greatest moral failures, that is a blood libel against Western civilization itself. What next, Ben? Johann Sebastian Bach ran a slave-trading enterprise on the side? Kepler started the Thirty Years War? Tolstoy instigated the Kishinev Pogrom? Dante was a bag-man for the Golden Horde? Why not go smash a few windows in Chartres Cathedral, Ben? Break wind in a chamber-music concert? Splash some red paint around in the Uffizi? Which other of our civilizational achievements would you like to sneer at? What else from what Waugh called “the work of centuries” would you like to “abandon … for sentimental qualms”? You call yourself a conservative? Feugh!

For shame, Ben Stein, for shame. Stand up for your civilization, man! and all its glories. The barbarians are at the gate, as they always have been. Come man the defenses with us, leaving the liars and fools to their lies and folly.



TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: benstein; creationism; derbyshire; directedpanspermia; expelled; intelligentdesign; moviereview; panspermia
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To: allmendream

First, Hitler was not a Christian, at least not after age 13. He rejected it for the ideas of Neitsche and Schopenaur, and for Occultism. Hitler, was of course, a genius at propaganda and manupulation, and so he used Christianity to advance Naziism within Germany’s mostly Christian population.

Yes, there were pogroms against the jews before Darwinism, but Darwinism was used as the foundation for the worst one, the Holocaust. Even Steven J. Gould admits that. Also, it wasn’t just Jews that were exterminated it was everyone that Nazis thought inferior. And it was not just killing them, it was experimenting with them for various reasons not the least of which was advancing the cause of the ubermensch.

Darwinism provided the foundation for eugenics and eugenics provided the foundation for Race Hygiene. Addtional info about Hitler and eugencis can be found at the link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_eugenics


241 posted on 04/28/2008 6:56:37 PM PDT by HerrBlucher (Asked on his deathbed why he was reading the bible, WC Fields replied "I'm looking for loopholes.")
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To: Delacon
>Not that easy. Only locally. Genetic dominance causes some species to flee the area and find dominance in another area and at the same time some to settle and be susceptible to other specie's domination.

I'd suggest you think about it some more. Natural selection is not a mechanism for variation, in fact left to it's own resources it must do the opposite.

242 posted on 04/28/2008 6:59:00 PM PDT by jwalsh07 (El Nino is climate, La Nina is weather.)
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To: tpanther
Put it this way....the left is so deranged....they go so far as to not allow teachers to make a simple statement like: “ID is not going to be part of the science curriculum, although we realize people do accept this as scientific theory, and there are books in the school library exploring this, but THIS school will not address ID. Not scientifically.”

I give up. Without presenting facts, ID isn't science, much less a body of science that has developed into what can be considered a scientific theory.

My youngest brother believes in wood elves, whatever those are. I imagine he has a "theory" as long as we are going to destroy the meaning of the word.

I'm all for prayer in public schools and I think we have gone well overboard to prevent any mention of religion in our schools. It should be a local decision.

But ID is creationism pretending to be science and doing a horrible job of it. It would be far better off not trying to fool people and be what it is, and move forward from there.

Creation is not science. ID isn't either. The proponents shouldn't lie to us and say that they are, because we're not stupid.

Get your message out any way that you want, even offering it as an elective class in public school, but don't insult my intelligence by claiming it's science when it doesn't even begin to be science.

243 posted on 04/28/2008 6:59:07 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Delacon
A great American, a great Human being, a great man!

But Robert R. Wilson was not technically a statesmen, although many politicians who aspire to be statesmanlike would give their eye teeth to have such a command of the language and such a transcendent view of what makes our nation great. I would say “Reagan-esque”.

Glad you enjoyed the quote, it is one of my favorites as it encapsulates one of my main reasons for my pursuit of an education and career in Science; without it ever being consciously spoken or even thought- yet when I read it it spoke to me deeply.

244 posted on 04/28/2008 6:59:20 PM PDT by allmendream (Life begins at the moment of contraception. ;))
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To: MrB
I KNEW you couldn't get through it without pulling the "I'm smarter" arrogance card.

Nope, didn't say Stein couldn't be criticized, but you JUST CAN'T HELP YOURSELVES, can you?

Yeah, you did say Stein couldn't be criticized because any criticism proved his point.

There's nothing arrogant about pointing out a flaw in your argument, but apparently this shows I'm out of control.

245 posted on 04/28/2008 7:02:52 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: scory

1. What effort did he/she make to determine whether God exists?”

All they need to do is read the book (or watch the video) “The Case for a Creator” by Lee Strobel.

Many scientists believe God exists.


246 posted on 04/28/2008 7:04:02 PM PDT by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get.)
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To: Delacon

But to be sure, that’s just my opinion. And I’m just a lowly engineer. So think about it or not.


247 posted on 04/28/2008 7:05:02 PM PDT by jwalsh07 (El Nino is climate, La Nina is weather.)
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To: Dog Gone
It's a ridiculous smear that has no scientific merit and is meant only to accomplish a very poorly done "guilt by association" argument.

First, it is only a smear if it is not true. Weickart supports his assertion with numerous references, his assertion is well documented. Second, it is not intended to be scientific, but a historical link from one event, Darwinism, to another, the Holocaust.

No one is saying Darwin was a Nazi, they are saying that his theory had consequences.

248 posted on 04/28/2008 7:05:36 PM PDT by HerrBlucher (Asked on his deathbed why he was reading the bible, WC Fields replied "I'm looking for loopholes.")
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To: Shryke

So, uh, you think the movie is making money?”

I believe if Stein wanted a movie that made money, he could have produced one.

Only ignorant people, who haven’t seen the movie, would trash it for what they imagine it says.


249 posted on 04/28/2008 7:09:24 PM PDT by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get.)
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To: HerrBlucher
“so he (Hitler) used Christianity to advance Naziism within Germany’s mostly Christian population.”

Exactly my point. He used “Christian” rhetoric about avenging the “blood upon the cross”, Socialist rhetoric about “international bankers” being war profiteers.

And yet you (or anyone else) seem entirely unable to come up with a quote where he used evolution as an excuse to hate or kill Jews.

If we are talking about what inspired the Holocaust, why not look at the actual words that Nazi leaders used to extort the Nazi masses to hate and kill Jews? What secrets lay deep in their hearts is immaterial, what they said to their followers to whip up Jew hatred is exactly and precisely what could be said to be the inspiration for the Holocaust; and what they said was not....

“We are all the descendants of Apes, but we are the SUPERIOR descendants of Apes.”

It was simply not a good rallying cry, it wasn't logical, and it wouldn't be something his audience of Nazi's would be willing to get behind; therefore how could one say that the Scientific theory of Evolution was behind the Holocaust when those who desired the Holocaust never mentioned it to their followers as a reason to hate and kill Jews?

And racism and eugenics have as little to do with actual Evolution as they have to do with Christianity. Racists have attempted to use both Christianity and Evolution to validate their hate. But eugenics and racism predates both Christianity and the theory of Evolution.

250 posted on 04/28/2008 7:10:17 PM PDT by allmendream (Life begins at the moment of contraception. ;))
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To: PreciousLiberty

I’ve not seen the movie either, and based on what I know of it have no desire to.”

You really don’t know anything.

Eugenie Scott’s NCSE Rattled By EXPELLED
The National Center For Science Education has taken the extraordinary and unprecedented step of building a website devoted solely to discrediting the first film by independent producers Premise Media, lending credence to the film’s claim of deliberate academic suppression by what it calls “Big Science.”

Welcome!
The National Center for Science Education (NCSE) defends the teaching of evolution in public schools. We are a nationally-recognized clearinghouse for information and advice to keep evolution in the science classroom and “scientific creationism” out. NCSE is the only national organization to specialize in this issue.

http://www.natcenscied.org/


251 posted on 04/28/2008 7:16:12 PM PDT by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get.)
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To: MrB

There are no consequences for believing in leprechauns.”

what are the consequences for believing in God?

You become a more caring person?


252 posted on 04/28/2008 7:20:49 PM PDT by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get.)
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To: jwalsh07

It is a lot of trouble, because I have fat fingers and type with just two of them.

If you are a seeker, I will make an effort. If your mind is made up, please don’t put me through it.


253 posted on 04/28/2008 7:24:56 PM PDT by Soliton
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To: HerrBlucher

Okay, explain why his Theory hasn’t resulted in a world dominatied by Nazis.

His theory is the most widely accepted theory for the species.

Was it a one-time thingie? If so, why?


254 posted on 04/28/2008 7:26:13 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: HerrBlucher

Hitler claimed to be a Christian as an adult. He never claimed to be a “Darwinist”.


255 posted on 04/28/2008 7:26:32 PM PDT by Soliton
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To: The Woim
If you read Darwin carefully, and all the pro-evolutionists carefully - (evolution is inherently philosophical because you’re relying on unprovable premises)

All science relies on unprovable premises. Philosophy of Science 101. It just so happens that we all implicitly accept these premises in our everyday lives. For instance, you have to believe that there is a coherent structure to nature, with more or less unchanging laws. You have to believe that the physical world is real and that we can accurately observe it. However, none of these premises can be proven, and nor do we have any reason to be certain they are true. Go read David Hume's Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding.

and take their writings and words seriously, they start with an anti-religious premise.

Really? So which anti-religious premises underly evolutionary biology? I am not aware of any.

If science would stick to proving itself,

Science is not about proof. Nothing in science can be proven in the strict, mathematical sense. Science is about using empirical evidence to figure out how nature works. No theory about how nature works, however, can ever be definitely proven. Evidence can be gathered and experiments run whose outcomes either support theories or reject them. However, even if a theory has been tested a thousand times, and supported by all available evidence (as the neo-Darwinian synthesis has), you can never definitely say a theory is the absolute truth. That's because it is always possible that someone will find some evidence in the future that disproves it. This is as true of modern evolutionary theory as of any other.

there would be no argument but when an Texas A&M science professor won’t give a recommendation to a student unless he renounces his belief in Christianity then we have a problem.

I am not familiar with the details of the case, but your account of it is not consistent with what I have read about it.

Guys, science doesn’t require “belief”.

At some level yes, it does, as I demonstrate above.

As for the fossil records, good luck finding that missing link...

Well, if a link is found, then it's no longer missing. There are many links that were once missing but were later found. This article gives many examples:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html

256 posted on 04/28/2008 7:28:59 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: wideawake
Derbyshire has basically revealed over the past year or so that he doesn't believe in God

I love the way these guys get so epileptic about something they believe to be nonexistent.

I don't believe that UFOs are intelligent extraterrestrial life forms. However, I do not foam at the mouth denouncing those who do.

257 posted on 04/28/2008 7:34:22 PM PDT by outofstyle (There's a rake at the gates of Hell tonight)
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To: Alter Kaker

Western Civilization is predicated on the belief that objective knowledge can be accumulated by rational, testable means. Creationism — which is a euphemism for rejecting the concept of science and scientific knowledge — rejects that premise.”

Set aside the many competing explanations of the Big Bang; something made an entire cosmos out of nothing.
It is this realization— that something transcendent started it all— which has hard-science types... using terms like “miracle”.


258 posted on 04/28/2008 7:35:25 PM PDT by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get.)
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To: Alter Kaker

Western Civilization is predicated on the belief that objective knowledge can be accumulated by rational, testable means. Creationism — which is a euphemism for rejecting the concept of science and scientific knowledge — rejects that premise.”

Set aside the many competing explanations of the Big Bang; something made an entire cosmos out of nothing.
It is this realization— that something transcendent started it all— which has hard-science types... using terms like “miracle”.

Gregg Easterbrook


259 posted on 04/28/2008 7:36:21 PM PDT by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get.)
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To: curiosity

I know how liberals work, and that the “paper publication process” is hardly the point!

Frankly, I’ve seen ideas about snowflakes, inner ears, etc. on paper, submitted as papers, made of paper; that more than satisfied me and many others btw, AND some inexplicable “big bang” on ga-jillions of papers just isn’t a good enough theory TO SOMEHOW DISCOUNT past, current or future works of alternative theory!

I don’t NEED papers from others to help me think, one way or the other, published or otherwise. Scientists aren’t God and some magical group of them don’t forever define science for me or everyone else either!

Besides the fact that papers are just that: papers for peer rerview...some 100 years ago, now or perhaps 100 years from now, it’s still concensus and not always proof or “science”, per se. It’s not just ID, but UFO’s or other subjects or theory that scientists agree or disagree as being legitimate “science”. But the point is it’s fluid information! Squashing that exchange just because it threatens you and no more isn’t science, it’s fascism.

I can read hundreds of papers on a drug’s benefits and drawbacks and I can line up a group that swears the drug is safe, and a group that says it’s dangerous as hell, with each side calling the other side quacks, or the other’s works are flawed and STILL be no closer to so-called “proof” than I was when I knew nothing! Papers, no papers, it’s not the point! Papers don’t guarantee proof...just as I don’t need papers to convince me of proof that my parents love me!

One side could be getting some sort of unseen benefit from a certain pharmaceutical company say in a lawsuit in court!

I can’t find any papers proving scientifically that evolution is the only valid theory and thereby discounts ID or answers everything to my satisfaction either! I think THAT is the better question to ask!

Your website, your peers are just that, no one has appointed them, you or me or anyone else to define for all what science is or isn’t!

How would you expect to see so much proof everywhere, when as soon as the subject matter is presnted, it’s confronted with “but that’s not science”? How many scientists bring their bias into the equations to poison ID in it’s infancy?

Besides, no paper that answers your questions now may still do so later, but how would you ever know if it’s disallowed, not to mention discouraged from the science curriculum so early on in a child’s life?

Why live so fearfully that young children might somehow accept the idea that an explanation of no design unintelligent or otherwise, is simply scientifically insufficient as well?

Science IS insufficient! And hardly etched in stone!

BTW, I myself have submitted a paper concerning artificial insemination, surrogate egg, surrogate womb, and adoptive parents and thus the potential for a child having 10 (5 different sets of) grandparents and the complicated ethical aspects of all these technological implications we’ve developed with science and such non-traditional families....didn’t make the journal and I couldn’t tell you where that copy is now either.

That’s the thing about liberals “enlightening” others, much like science nothing is ever “proven” is it?

Perhaps an explanation regarding scientists like Newton that believed in God is in order?

Were they any less scientific or no longer scientists because they didn’t line up with your world view?


260 posted on 04/28/2008 7:40:51 PM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing-----Edmund Burke)
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