Confidence in polygamy search warrant now shaky

SCRIPPS HOWARD NEWS SERVICE ^ | 4/24/2008 | PAUL A. ANTHONY

[ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas]

>>Silly me for thinking polygamy’s illegal.<<

If you have a civil marriage to more than one person, that’s polygamy and is illegal. If they just have a FLDS leader proclaim that you are “married” to multiple people that’s not polygamy in a legal sense. I’m not saying it’s a good thing, but I don’t see how that is illegal in itself.

[wita]

No reason to read any further, you have no concept of protective custody laws in the country.

Childrens Services still have a legal mandate to investigate

These two items and more, regarding CPS and their legal status being separate and distinct from criminal statutes, is just one of many “issues” with this case.

There are a few here that do not believe government has a mandate above the law or outside criminal law, to protect one group of people above another.

After all, abortion is “legal”, protecting one group at the expense of another, and a great many here would say legal yes, but the right thing to do is another issue entirely.

[Rudder]

I don't understand your post to me---it seems I said what you said and yet you say I don't know the law regarding childrens' services. Maybe you're just generally confused.

Here's what I said: "Childrens Services still have a legal mandate to investigate and, if warranted, intervene."

Here's what you said: "Childrens Services still have a legal mandate to investigate"

Please clarify your post.

[dmz]

What seedy stuff was uncovered “since they went in”?
______

So you completely discount every report stating that there is evidence of, what?, 20 or so pregnant underaged girls in custody? And that being just the ones who have obviously given birth or are currently pregnant. Couple that with the conviction of their prophet, and my threshold for ‘seedy stuff’ has been met.

And you know as well as I do, none of the children or their moms have been arrested.

[wolfcreek]

“It’s a sad day for Texan justice.”

I hear the FLDS will be looking for a new home. Any takers?

As a Texan, I will be glad to see them go.

[Neidermeyer]

From: http://www.travelbygps.com/articles/tracking.php

However the GPS in most cell phones are not like those in your handy GPS receiver that you take hiking. Most cell phones do not allow the user direct access to the GPS data, accurate location determination requires the assistance of the wireless network, and the GPS data is transmitted only if a 911 emergency call is made.
************************************************
GPS freqs fall between 1176 and 1575 MHz , GSM is 800-900 and 1800-1900 in the U.S. , CDMA is 1800-1900 , analog AMPS (obsolete was 800-850 ... All modern cell phones would need an additional receiver for the signal range of the GPS data and therefore the GSM format would not be adventageous. As you stated computing power at the tower is necessary to decrypt the GPS info.

[SouthTexas]

No responses eh?

[muawiyah]

"unreasonable warrant" ~ now that's a new concept. An "unreasonable search" is what you're grasping for.

Seems to me CPS had authority to do what they did. Only reason for a warrant was the F(lds) had limited public access to their front gate.

[muawiyah]

With minors you move them to a safe place, then the trial, then the conviction of the perpetrator.

Kids then go back home.

[Jim W N]

If they just have a FLDS leader proclaim that you are “married” to multiple people that’s not polygamy in a legal sense.

Well, I guess at some point this leads to yet another problem of incorporating sex outside of marriage into our society with the legalization of fornication and adultery. Anybody can be a "polygamist" as long as he's not legally married to them. Looks like that may be where we're headed if not already there.

[onedoug]

...illegal in itself....

Though it should be, from the stand point of inbreeding (you've got to admit some of those women look pretty weird) and from possible contractual and inheritance considerations from state to state.

And then, as I stated earlier, there are the Biblical considerations which, though not necessarily binding in law, yet form the bases of Judeo-Christian society.

[ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas]

>>Well, I guess at some point this leads to yet another problem of incorporating sex outside of marriage into our society with the legalization of fornication and adultery.<<

I agree with you that sex outside marriage creates many problems.

I am not a lawyer, so somebody correct me if I am wrong. Since states can make homosexual marriage legal (they can go to a JP and get a government issued marriage certificate) if they want to, I don’t see why a state could not make polygamy legal in the same way. And if an employee with a “domestic partner” of the same sex can sue his employer for the health benefits offered to legally married heterosexual employees, why couldn’t a polygamist also sue for benefits?

IMO polygamy leads to many problems, but making it illegal to get multiple civil marriages obviously does not prevent de facto polygamous unions.

[aruanan]

I think you are making a HUGE assumption when you say “they got the warrant in good faith”.

Although knowingly obtaining a warrant under false pretenses invalidates the basis for the warrant, obtaining a warrant "in good faith" on a non-factual basis discovered after the fact doesn't somehow make the warrant okay. The basis for a warrant rests entirely on the facticity of the evidence and has nothing to do with the degree to which those seeking the warrant really, really, really believe in what they're doing. The reason for a witch hunt should really depend only on the existence of a witch, not on the fervency of belief of the hunters that a witch exists.

[wita]

Sorry for the delay, been on the road all day.

You said:

Here’s what I said: “Childrens Services still have a legal mandate to investigate and, if warranted, intervene.”

I quoted you:

Here’s what you said: “Childrens Services still have a legal mandate to investigate”

These two look the same because they are. It is your quote in both cases. Sorry you didn’t recognize it.

The other part of my post was this:

No reason to read any further, you have no concept of protective custody laws in the country.

A quote from the other addressed individual.

The reason was this: I take issue with the legal status of any local, state or federal CPS. I used as an example another legal act, that of abortion.

The fact that abortion, or cps or any of a number of federal state of local activities deemed legal, does not necessarily make them right, Constitutional, or what government should or ought to be engaged in.

[Rudder]

...does not necessarily make them right...

I'm just the messenger, that's the way the laws are, like it or not.

After too many years providing professional medical services to Childrens' services under contract, I do know what the law are in this regard, like it nor not.

[wita]

I’m just the messenger, that’s the way the laws are, like it or not.

Exactly, and that was my point, I wasn’t arguing with you, just the fact that I was at issue with the laws regarding CPS. You just happened to be the messenger regarding law.

[WayneS]

So tell me, oh wise one, which ones are which?

[WayneS]

Exactly.

[WayneS]

Again, ALL things that they “knew” BEFORE they raided the “compound” and “detained” the women and children.

Please explain the functional difference between being “detained” and being arrested.

Also, the authorities someone managed to not even “detain” any men (the alleged offenders).

[dmz]

Please explain the functional difference between being “detained” and being arrested.
_______

LOL. I think you are just being difficult now. People who are arrested spend their days in jail. Pretty minimalistic existence. Are you suggesting that this is what the kids are experiencing, exactly what it is like to be in jail?