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Who knows… We do.
Samson Blinded ^ | April 18 2008 | Anon.

Posted on 04/22/2008 6:54:26 AM PDT by forkinsocket

Jews believe in the peace for various reasons. Some Jews are plainly self-hating, and just want a trouble for the Jewish state. Others are too tired of war, and just want to close their eyes to see the ivory tower of peace and happy relations between Jews, Egyptians, Iranians and whoever else. Some are primitive rationalists – look at the numbers of Jews in the utopian movements such as the communist one – and believe that every human problem, however immensely complex, can be reduced to a formula, discussed, and settled. Some politicians are crooks who use peace process to fool the masses into electing them. Some, notably the security establishment officials, see clearly that military methods fail to solve the problem, and opt for peace settlement. They just don’t realize that even in mathematics, and surely in social relations, some problems are inherently unsolvable. Or it may be the other way around: the leftist Israeli establishment appoints the brainwashed ultra-leftists for security positions, and naturally they support the hollow peace.

So instead of seeking an immediate solution, which ought to be wrong, Jews must accept the reality of intermittent low-level conflict which would drag on for the foreseeable future. We really don’t know what would happen in a few decades. Improvements in nuclear power generation can devaluate oil, causing immense poverty and hunger in overpopulated Arab countries. Such a scenario would increase the number of desperate terrorists but diminish the threat by impoverished regular Arab armies.

Arabs might get nuclear weapons, and surely leak them to terrorists who might or might not detonate them in Israel. That threat would only increase if peace agreements are signed, as Israel will find it diplomatically hard to preempt against friendly Arabs’ nuclear facilities.

Arabs might breed in Israel to the third of voters, join coalition with Jewish ultra-left and non-Jewish parties, and vote Jewish state out of existence, thus solving the problem of coexistence with Arabs. Or Jews might drive the hostile elements out of Israel.

There are so many unknown variables in the peace process that trying to predict it amounts to nonsense. Some things, however, are easy to understand. The Arabs don’t need peace with Israel: both peace and its absence are fine with them. They don’t need Israel’s assistance and don’t fear her attacks. Peace treaty won’t change the Arab behavior: they will continue supporting anti-Israeli terrorists if only to drain their countries of radicals and won’t entrust Israel to be a vizier of Muslim funds (economic cooperation). The only substantial economic feature that would come out of Israeli-Arab peace is heavy investment by Muslims in the politically sensitive Israeli real estate, the process which is well underway now and only waiting to be legalized.

Arabs, being completely indifferent to the peace process, offer Israel no concessions: Judea and Samaria must be abandoned, Jerusalem divided, and the refugees – compensated, with some of them allowed returning to Israel. That’s not really a peace plan, but an odd demand for capitulation of a victorious power to the defeated aggressors.

Israel, on the contrary, gives way continuously and receives nothing in return. Arabs did not reciprocate the evacuation of Jewish settlements from Gaza, a major step which divided Jewish nation and left a scar for decades. Rather, Arabs intensified their attacks on Israel. Superficially, that applies to Palestinian militants only, but they enjoy support of every major Muslim state: Syria (weapons), Iran (money and training), Egypt (logistics), and Saudi Arabia (money and diplomatic support).

Back in 1972, Sadat offered Israel peace with all Arabs in return for the Sinai and the Golan Heights, with no heed paid to the Palestinian state. Recently, Saudis offered Israel peace with all Arabs in return for Judea, Samaria, and Jerusalem. Now Israel negotiates with the Palestinians minute details of transferring them Judea, Samaria, and Jerusalem without expecting reciprocal peace with Arabs countries. The terms become progressively worse.

But the real peace problem, it’s not without, it’s within Israel. Israeli Arabs form a third of Israel’s young and absolute majority in several regions. The Jewish state now abandons religiously, historically, and strategically important lands to the Palestinian state so as not to be swarmed by two million Arabs living there. Reduced to the nine-mile-wide beachside state, Israel will be swarmed by her own Arabs – who accept no peace process. It is an official policy of the PLO – indeed, a democratic maxim – that the Palestinians will breed to majority in Israel and then vote to unify it with the West Bank Palestine. Moderates among Palestinians proclaim they have no problem with Jews living in the resulting Arab state.

Time solves the insolvable problems. Communism vanished from the book of time, leftist terrorism of 1970s ran to the end, and Islamic terrorism won’t be eternal. Radical ideas do not last long as burning societies fall back into tranquility. The current levels of Palestinian terrorism are artificial, entirely propped by Beilin-Peres policies which brought the defeated PLO from Tunisia to the West Bank, enthroned it, subsidized heavily, and promoted internationally as a peace partner. So a shabby cat felt itself a lion. Palestinians support fighting Israel for two reasons: hope and hopelessness. A hope to prevail, and daily hopelessness of their lives. Both can be solved, by the overwhelming force and emigration, respectively. The Muslim Brotherhood, PLO, Hamas, in turn became political organizations; other guerrillas will follow the same road. Palestinians will always remain hostile to Israel, as Jews took over what the Palestinians think is their land. Such hostility would translate into low-level sabotage, but not a meaningful war.

The peace process lacks a historical precedent. Never did hostile states negotiated peace for decades under fire. Peace never came through negotiations, but only through one side’s defeat. America negotiated with Vietnam for decades, but Vietnam was not at war with America; North Vietnam was at war with the South – and utterly defeated it. So the peace process failed in Vietnam, like elsewhere. Peace process is a leftist fallacy, a primitive rationalist approach to immensely complex problems which in fact can be exhausted, but never solved.

Exhausting the Palestinian problem is easy, and Israel did it with success: behead the national organizations, expel their leaders, everyone of the slightest stance in Palestinian society. No great numbers are involved: ousting a few thousand top members of Fatah, Hamas, and other popular organizations would do. When Israel kept systematically expelling PLO associates in 1960-80s, everything was quiet on our Western Front. Even though the PLO tried ruling Palestine through its Department of Popular Organizations which oversaw everything down to students unions, it was nothing compared to the electrifying fact of Arafat’s presence in the West Bank. Beilin-Peres clique brought Arafat from Tunisia to the West Bank, literally let the jinn of terrorism out of the bottle. They meant good, they meant Arafat to be their peace puppet. So they were wrong. As usual, societies pay in blood for leftists’ crumbling projects.

The majority of the Netherlands’ population was good to Jews during Holocaust. But the problem is, the Dutch were also good toward their minority who collaborated with Germans. The minority hunted us, and so 75% of Jews were murdered. The majority of Israelis are decent Jews who wish their country well. But unless they stand up to the vicious leftist minority, too few Jews would survive in Israel.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Israel
KEYWORDS: arabs; falseeschatology; israel; palestinians; zipcomsanidiot
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To: mad_as_he$$

Buddhist to hot dog vendor: “Make me one with everything.”


21 posted on 04/22/2008 7:42:31 AM PDT by tumblindice (I try to avoid cliches like the plague)
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To: tabsternager

Yay! Carter is that you? Just tell how it is the Jews’ fault if the Palis can’t organize a remotely civilized or productive entity. Israel withdrew completely from Gaza. The Palis turned everything economically valuable into garbage. Instead they beg for foreign money to lob rockets into Israel. Yeah, we ought to give them more... NOT!


22 posted on 04/22/2008 7:42:46 AM PDT by SolidWood
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To: SJackson
Jew who accepted Christ as Messiah, the pagan Nazis killed him too. Even a non-Jew, unfortunate enough to have a Jewish parent or spouse.

Psssst! Don't let zip.com know that more than 5 million non-Jews were murdered by the Nazis as well!/dark sarcasm

23 posted on 04/22/2008 7:44:33 AM PDT by SolidWood
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To: tumblindice

Did he turn into a hotdog?


24 posted on 04/22/2008 7:52:50 AM PDT by mamelukesabre (Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?)
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To: forkinsocket
We do! We do!


25 posted on 04/22/2008 8:00:28 AM PDT by Phlap (REDNECK@LIBARTS.EDU)
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To: SolidWood

That does put a dent in the theory.


26 posted on 04/22/2008 8:03:01 AM PDT by SJackson (before we work on problems, have to fix our souls. Our souls are broken in this nation, Michelle O.)
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To: Salem; SJackson; Alouette; F15Eagle; 444Flyer; T.L.Sink; mkjessup; M. Espinola; Yehuda; Nachum; ...

Ping!


27 posted on 04/22/2008 8:04:53 AM PDT by Convert from ECUSA ("Typical 'bitter' 'White Male" whose vote the Dems now desperately want so bad - HA!)
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To: zip.com

I’d be real careful about attributing the evils of men who have conducted genocide against Jews or the terrorists to your Christian beliefs. You may be very devout, but God probably hasn’t explained all of his plan to you. Remember Pat Robertson attributing 9/11 to God? Evil men do evil things. God gave them free will. Why blame the victims? Give it some thought and prayer. When Islamic terrorists kill Christians, is it the fault of Christians or the evil of the terrorists?


28 posted on 04/22/2008 8:10:35 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (If you share Wright's pews, you share his views.)
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To: tabsternager
Do you think Israel’s problems with terrorism might have something to do with Israel’s confiscation of land and diverting of water resources for their settlements in the occupied territories?

No.

29 posted on 04/22/2008 8:18:56 AM PDT by Alouette (Vicious Babushka)
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To: elhombrelibre
When Islamic terrorists kill Christians, is it the fault of Christians or the evil of the terrorists?

Just ask one, they have the answer, it's the refusal of the heathen crusaders to accept the Prophet.

30 posted on 04/22/2008 8:20:34 AM PDT by SJackson (before we work on problems, have to fix our souls. Our souls are broken in this nation, Michelle O.)
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To: zip.com
I see all Jewish conflicts relating back to their refusal to accept Christ as their Messiah. Period.

How do you explain the troubles endured by Christians in China, Africa, Thailand, Philipines, Iraq, Turkey, Pakistan? Hmm?

31 posted on 04/22/2008 8:22:04 AM PDT by Alouette (Vicious Babushka)
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To: 1st-P-In-The-Pod; 2ndDivisionVet; A_Conservative_in_Cambridge; af_vet_rr; agrace; Aiko; ...
FReepMail to be added or removed from this pro-Israel/Judaic/Russian Jewry ping list.

Warning! This is a high-volume ping list.

32 posted on 04/22/2008 8:23:12 AM PDT by Alouette (Vicious Babushka)
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To: Alouette; zip.com
It's right of you to put the shoe on the other foot. If someone can cavalierly explain the murderous Muslem attacks on Jews with the Book of Revelations and the failure of Jews to accept Jesus as the Messiah (and apparently all of the Pogroms and Genocide throughout history directed at Jews), can he sit still and be equally indifferent to the mass murder of Muslems who kill Christians because they won't accept the True Prophet (as the Islamists would say)? I think not.

It's a common sense observation that we needn't excuse or diminish the suffering of anyone.

33 posted on 04/22/2008 8:41:13 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (If you share Wright's pews, you share his views.)
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To: Alouette; zip.com
It's right of you to put the shoe on the other foot. If someone can cavalierly explain the murderous Muslem attacks on Jews with the Book of Revelations and the failure of Jews to accept Jesus as the Messiah (and apparently all of the Pogroms and Genocide throughout history directed at Jews), can he sit still and be equally indifferent to the mass murder of Muslems who kill Christians because they won't accept the True Prophet (as the Islamists would say)? I think not.

It's a common sense observation that we needn't excuse or diminish the suffering of anyone.

34 posted on 04/22/2008 8:41:18 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (If you share Wright's pews, you share his views.)
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To: SJackson
We're all in this fight together. That is, we who are civilized. Despite some of the comments that occur here on FreeRepublic, I've met reasonable Moslems who do not wish to harm anyone and are as baffled about the Islamist's world view as any rational person. I met Bosnian Moslems in Iraq who condemned al Qaeda with the same language I'd use.
35 posted on 04/22/2008 8:45:55 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (If you share Wright's pews, you share his views.)
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To: zip.com

I see comments like yours as preachy, arrogant, and patroniing. It is really irritating that so many people have to throw their religious beliefs at other people so often.


36 posted on 04/22/2008 8:47:44 AM PDT by purpleraine
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To: zip.com
The Jews are refusing their Messiah, as sent by God. Their troubles begin there and end there. Period. Everything you are seeing now is a consequence of that refusal. All they have to do is ACCEPT Christ as their Messiah — very simple - but not so easy, as we’ve seen throughout history what has happened to them.

Wow. So the Egyptians enslaved the Jews because they rejected the Messiah. And the `Amaleqites, Midianites, Philistines, Assyrians, and Babylonians devastated ancient Israel because ancient Israel had rejected the Messiah.

I was not aware that the Jews never had any troubles until two thousand years ago. Neither was I aware that when one becomes a chr*stian all one's troubles end. I used to be a chr*stian and I had plenty of troubles!

A word of advice: you can't "prove" something by quoting a book unless the person you're arguing with accepts the authority of the book you're quoting. To "prove" something by quoting the "new testament" is like a mormon "proving" something by quoting the book of m or a moslem "proving" something by quoting the qur'an--it only works with other mormons or other moslems.

The Jews' problems began centuries before they rejected J*sus and will continue until HaShem puts an end to history.

37 posted on 04/22/2008 8:57:37 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . `et hazamir higgi`a, veqol hator nishma` be'artzeinu.)
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To: zip.com

God has a hope-filled guaranteed designated written future plan for Israel (Romans 11). Evil prevails because of man and his sinful nature and affects us all regardless of our standing with the Almighty. Read “Foxe: Voices of the Martyrs, 33 A.D. to Today”.


38 posted on 04/22/2008 9:14:50 AM PDT by 444Flyer (Hi Dad!)
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To: forkinsocket

[Judea and Samaria must be abandoned, Jerusalem divided, and the refugees – compensated, with some of them allowed returning to Israel. That’s not really a peace plan, but an odd demand for capitulation of a victorious power to the defeated aggressors.]

This is what is so unbeievabley weird about this whole peace for land nonsense. How often in history has the victor had to make concessions to the defeated aggressors which would almost certainly result in the ultimate destruction of the victorious nation or people-group? I guess it just doesn’t pay to win wars in defense of one’s sovereign territory. This is really bizarro-world. So “to the victor go the spoils” must seem a little archaic to GW, Condi and the folks at foggy bottom.


39 posted on 04/22/2008 9:58:45 AM PDT by bereanway (Hunter in '08)
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To: bereanway

Jews are not used to being conquerors. They have a lot of trouble learning how to act like ones.


40 posted on 04/22/2008 10:00:53 AM PDT by forkinsocket
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