Posted on 04/22/2008 6:54:26 AM PDT by forkinsocket
Jews believe in the peace for various reasons. Some Jews are plainly self-hating, and just want a trouble for the Jewish state. Others are too tired of war, and just want to close their eyes to see the ivory tower of peace and happy relations between Jews, Egyptians, Iranians and whoever else. Some are primitive rationalists – look at the numbers of Jews in the utopian movements such as the communist one – and believe that every human problem, however immensely complex, can be reduced to a formula, discussed, and settled. Some politicians are crooks who use peace process to fool the masses into electing them. Some, notably the security establishment officials, see clearly that military methods fail to solve the problem, and opt for peace settlement. They just don’t realize that even in mathematics, and surely in social relations, some problems are inherently unsolvable. Or it may be the other way around: the leftist Israeli establishment appoints the brainwashed ultra-leftists for security positions, and naturally they support the hollow peace.
So instead of seeking an immediate solution, which ought to be wrong, Jews must accept the reality of intermittent low-level conflict which would drag on for the foreseeable future. We really don’t know what would happen in a few decades. Improvements in nuclear power generation can devaluate oil, causing immense poverty and hunger in overpopulated Arab countries. Such a scenario would increase the number of desperate terrorists but diminish the threat by impoverished regular Arab armies.
Arabs might get nuclear weapons, and surely leak them to terrorists who might or might not detonate them in Israel. That threat would only increase if peace agreements are signed, as Israel will find it diplomatically hard to preempt against friendly Arabs’ nuclear facilities.
Arabs might breed in Israel to the third of voters, join coalition with Jewish ultra-left and non-Jewish parties, and vote Jewish state out of existence, thus solving the problem of coexistence with Arabs. Or Jews might drive the hostile elements out of Israel.
There are so many unknown variables in the peace process that trying to predict it amounts to nonsense. Some things, however, are easy to understand. The Arabs don’t need peace with Israel: both peace and its absence are fine with them. They don’t need Israel’s assistance and don’t fear her attacks. Peace treaty won’t change the Arab behavior: they will continue supporting anti-Israeli terrorists if only to drain their countries of radicals and won’t entrust Israel to be a vizier of Muslim funds (economic cooperation). The only substantial economic feature that would come out of Israeli-Arab peace is heavy investment by Muslims in the politically sensitive Israeli real estate, the process which is well underway now and only waiting to be legalized.
Arabs, being completely indifferent to the peace process, offer Israel no concessions: Judea and Samaria must be abandoned, Jerusalem divided, and the refugees – compensated, with some of them allowed returning to Israel. That’s not really a peace plan, but an odd demand for capitulation of a victorious power to the defeated aggressors.
Israel, on the contrary, gives way continuously and receives nothing in return. Arabs did not reciprocate the evacuation of Jewish settlements from Gaza, a major step which divided Jewish nation and left a scar for decades. Rather, Arabs intensified their attacks on Israel. Superficially, that applies to Palestinian militants only, but they enjoy support of every major Muslim state: Syria (weapons), Iran (money and training), Egypt (logistics), and Saudi Arabia (money and diplomatic support).
Back in 1972, Sadat offered Israel peace with all Arabs in return for the Sinai and the Golan Heights, with no heed paid to the Palestinian state. Recently, Saudis offered Israel peace with all Arabs in return for Judea, Samaria, and Jerusalem. Now Israel negotiates with the Palestinians minute details of transferring them Judea, Samaria, and Jerusalem without expecting reciprocal peace with Arabs countries. The terms become progressively worse.
But the real peace problem, it’s not without, it’s within Israel. Israeli Arabs form a third of Israel’s young and absolute majority in several regions. The Jewish state now abandons religiously, historically, and strategically important lands to the Palestinian state so as not to be swarmed by two million Arabs living there. Reduced to the nine-mile-wide beachside state, Israel will be swarmed by her own Arabs – who accept no peace process. It is an official policy of the PLO – indeed, a democratic maxim – that the Palestinians will breed to majority in Israel and then vote to unify it with the West Bank Palestine. Moderates among Palestinians proclaim they have no problem with Jews living in the resulting Arab state.
Time solves the insolvable problems. Communism vanished from the book of time, leftist terrorism of 1970s ran to the end, and Islamic terrorism won’t be eternal. Radical ideas do not last long as burning societies fall back into tranquility. The current levels of Palestinian terrorism are artificial, entirely propped by Beilin-Peres policies which brought the defeated PLO from Tunisia to the West Bank, enthroned it, subsidized heavily, and promoted internationally as a peace partner. So a shabby cat felt itself a lion. Palestinians support fighting Israel for two reasons: hope and hopelessness. A hope to prevail, and daily hopelessness of their lives. Both can be solved, by the overwhelming force and emigration, respectively. The Muslim Brotherhood, PLO, Hamas, in turn became political organizations; other guerrillas will follow the same road. Palestinians will always remain hostile to Israel, as Jews took over what the Palestinians think is their land. Such hostility would translate into low-level sabotage, but not a meaningful war.
The peace process lacks a historical precedent. Never did hostile states negotiated peace for decades under fire. Peace never came through negotiations, but only through one side’s defeat. America negotiated with Vietnam for decades, but Vietnam was not at war with America; North Vietnam was at war with the South – and utterly defeated it. So the peace process failed in Vietnam, like elsewhere. Peace process is a leftist fallacy, a primitive rationalist approach to immensely complex problems which in fact can be exhausted, but never solved.
Exhausting the Palestinian problem is easy, and Israel did it with success: behead the national organizations, expel their leaders, everyone of the slightest stance in Palestinian society. No great numbers are involved: ousting a few thousand top members of Fatah, Hamas, and other popular organizations would do. When Israel kept systematically expelling PLO associates in 1960-80s, everything was quiet on our Western Front. Even though the PLO tried ruling Palestine through its Department of Popular Organizations which oversaw everything down to students unions, it was nothing compared to the electrifying fact of Arafat’s presence in the West Bank. Beilin-Peres clique brought Arafat from Tunisia to the West Bank, literally let the jinn of terrorism out of the bottle. They meant good, they meant Arafat to be their peace puppet. So they were wrong. As usual, societies pay in blood for leftists’ crumbling projects.
The majority of the Netherlands’ population was good to Jews during Holocaust. But the problem is, the Dutch were also good toward their minority who collaborated with Germans. The minority hunted us, and so 75% of Jews were murdered. The majority of Israelis are decent Jews who wish their country well. But unless they stand up to the vicious leftist minority, too few Jews would survive in Israel.
The chief end of man is to worship God and enjoy Him forever. When we recognize all that He has done for us, and who He is, worship is a natural response.
God created me and all that exists. He is all powerful, and yet desires to have a relationship with us “tiny fly specks.” Wow.
Of course not, I recognize Israel's right to close their border to anyone they choose.
Of course unlike tabsternager, I don't worship at the altar of the UN.
And unlike tabsternager , I'm consistant, I recognize America's right to close our border, Egypt's, even the Saudi's right to build a wall.
You, on the other hand, don't, your standards differ.
While you rant and rage about Israel's refusal to open her border to terrorists, you note on your home page.
I'm a social as well as fiscal conservative who's not happy with Pres. Bush. The illegal immigration issue was the last straw for me as a Republican. I'm now an independent.
I acknowledge GWB could have done more to open our souther border, but isn't it a bit rash to leave the GOP because they're not allowing enough illegals in?
Should that be an illusion to not closing the border as Israel does, then the obvious question is whether you're lying there or here.
Double standards are so diffucult to manage.
Trolls are trolls, they peddle propaganda cause that’s what they do, it’s not a question of religion.
True, but when they claim a religion and use it as a part of their anti-Israel propaganda, they make everyone else that share that particular religion look bad.
Or as I put it, some people just didn’t have any raising by their mothers and fathers.
That's true, there are those who would tell you that conservatives and/or conservative Christians are anti-Israel, and examples can easily be found.
“Of course unlike tabsternager, I don’t worship at the altar of the UN.”
Actually, I’d love for the U.S. to pull out of the UN and, unlike you, heed the founders’ warning about entangling alliances. Also, unlike you, I don’t worship at the alter of the state of Israel either.
Israel should be able to shut its borders and live within secure borders. Unfortunately, the problem is that Israel has never actually defined its borders, as all other nations have (which is largely for security reasons, btw).
Another problem is that Israel occupies and controls land that Palestinians have lived on for generations, which is the main reason for the blowback of terrorism against Israeli citizens. And, unlike you, I think a two-state solution is a far better choice than either ethnic cleansing or occupation.
What peace?
Terrorists are firing missiles into Israel on an almost daily basis.
How do you nuke one of your own posts? I’ve always thought that we couldn’t remove a post once it’s out?
Well I didn’t actually pull the ‘nuke’ trigger myself, I clicked on the ‘Report Abuse’ link, and in the message box to the admin-moderator, I just asked them to nuke my own post and they were happy to do so (probably because they’re wishing they could nuke me personally, LOL)
sorry, been off the computer all day.
Interesting, but it still doesn’t answer my question. Does god NEED to be worshiped. Does HE need it, and if so, will he take it out on you if you don’t. Is he the type that syas look at all I’ve done for you...you MUST bow down to me...That’s what I’m saying. It doesn’t make sense that an all-powerful all-knowing god would need that that from us. He’s gotta be too busy creating stars and black holes and whatever else he does...
Besides, there’s a billion Chinese running around that have never heard of Jesus. Are they in trouble for not getting the memo? Some kooks on this site say they are.
Sorry, haven’t logged on in a while. A nice response and all, but it’s still all a man-made construct. Men wrote the bible afterall. I have no problem with folks that worship Jesus or Buddha or Ra or Vishnu or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. If you get something out of it that’s swell.
But religion is a man-made construct to control the masses and give many living in abject poverty and filth something to cling to. But that’s ok. We have free-will right? I can sleep late on Sunday and watch football, or put on scratchy church pants and go and judge other people’s clothes for an hour or so.
I figure live a good life, don’t intentionally harm anyone and mind your own business. If you see god in the giant tree in your backyard and want to worship that-knock yourself out. If you see him as Jesus, that’s fine too.
Or...maybe God is a vengful god and doesn’t like it when you don’t worship him. Look what he did a few years ago to all those people in India and Thailand who’d never heard of him - he sent a big tsunami to obliterate a couple hundred thousand people. He must of had a good reason I guess.
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