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Ben Stein Exposes Richard Dawkins (Dawkins admits possibility of ID, Just Not God).
Townhall ^ | April 21, 2008 | Dinesh D'Souza

Posted on 04/21/2008 7:23:01 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

In Ben Stein's new film "Expelled," there is a great scene where Richard Dawkins is going on about how evolution explains everything. This is part of Dawkins' grand claim, which echoes through several of his books, that evolution by itself has refuted the argument from design. The argument from design hold that the design of the universe and of life are most likely the product of an intelligent designer. Dawkins thinks that Darwin has disproven this argument.

So Stein puts to Dawkins a simple question, "How did life begin?" One would think that this is a question that could be easily answered. Dawkins, however, frankly admits that he has no idea. One might expect Dawkins to invoke evolution as the all-purpose explanation. Evolution, however, only explains transitions from one life form to another. Evolution has no explanation for how life got started in the first place. Darwin was very clear about this.

In order for evolution to take place, there had to be a living cell. The difficulty for atheists is that even this original cell is a work of labyrinthine complexity. Franklin Harold writes in The Way of the Cell that even the simplest cells are more ingeniously complicated than man's most elaborate inventions: the factory system or the computer. Moreover, Harold writes that the various components of the cell do not function like random widgets; rather, they work purposefully together, as if cooperating in a planned organized venture. Dawkins himself has described the cell as the kind of supercomputer, noting that it functions through an information system that resembles the software code.

Is it possible that living cells somehow assembled themselves from nonliving things by chance? The probabilities here are so infinitesimal that they approach zero. Moreover, the earth has been around for some 4.5 billion years and the first traces of life have already been found at some 3.5 billion years ago. This is just what we have discovered: it's quite possible that life existed on earth even earlier. What this means is that, within the scope of evolutionary time, life appeared on earth very quickly after the earth itself was formed. Is it reasonable to posit that a chance combination of atoms and molecules, under those conditions, somehow generated a living thing? Could the random collision of molecules somehow produce a computer?

It is ridiculously implausible to think so. And the absurdity was recognized more than a decade ago by Francis Crick, co-discoverer of the DNA double helix. Yet Crick is a committed atheist. Unwilling to consider the possibility of divine or supernatural creation, Crick suggested that maybe aliens brought life to earth from another planet. And this is precisely the suggestion that Richard Dawkins makes in his response to Ben Stein. Perhaps, he notes, life was delivered to our planet by highly-evolved aliens. Let's call this the "ET" explanation.

Stein brilliantly responds that he had no idea Richard Dawkins believes in intelligent design! And indeed Dawkins does seem to be saying that alien intelligence is responsible for life arriving on earth. What are we to make of this? Basically Dawkins is surrendering on the claim that evolution can account for the origins of life. It can't. The issue now is simply whether a natural intelligence (ET) or a supernatural intelligence (God) created life. Dawkins can't bear the supernatural explanation and so he opts for ET. But doesn't it take as much, or more, faith to believe in extraterrestrial biology majors depositing life on earth than it does to believe in a transcendent creator?


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: benstein; dawkins; dineshdsouza; dsouza; expelled; franciscrick; intelligentdesign; moviereview; richarddawkins; stephenhawking
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To: tacticalogic
Dried blood is not blood

Dried blood is blood. Dried is a descriptor. Blood in the urine does not function as blood but it is still blood.

Sorry, I forgot to add .. to the sample arrowhead.

581 posted on 04/29/2008 4:47:41 PM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: AndrewC
Dried blood is blood. Dried is a descriptor.

Does blood contain water?

582 posted on 04/29/2008 4:50:47 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: AndrewC
Sorry, I forgot to add .. to the sample arrowhead.

Your sample arrohead looks like that picture?

583 posted on 04/29/2008 4:51:39 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: AndrewC
Wow, this thread is still going!

On a per-theatre basis, Expelled was 4th in box office receipts the first weekend, excellent for a documentary.

Dawkins' stuttering and stammering into a back-door of ID was totally hilarious! That moment alone is enough to get me to buy the DVD hen it comes out.

584 posted on 04/29/2008 4:52:51 PM PDT by cookcounty (Obama reach across the aisle? He's so far to the left, he'll need a roadmap to FIND the aisle.)
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To: tacticalogic
Does blood contain water?

Not when it is dried. I suppose Nescafe® is trying to foist a fraud on me with freeze-dried coffee.

585 posted on 04/29/2008 4:54:13 PM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: tacticalogic
Your sample arrohead looks like that picture?

It looks like whatever you want it to look like. You are the one giving the tests. I'm saying I agree entirely with what you conceive of as an arrowhead, save passing your functional test. And my hypothesized arrowhead meets the previous description. Gimme the test, lest you keep displaying your disengenuousness in full glory.

586 posted on 04/29/2008 4:59:43 PM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: AndrewC
He lost his RA position despite the SI confirmation to the congressional committee that he was an RA in good standing.

His sponsor, necessary to be an RA, died. Nobody was left that wanted to sponsor him, so he was renewed, but with RC status. In that status he still had access to everything he needed to do his work. He did not lose his job, he was simply changed to another status due to circumstances.

I also love how he likes to use the "turning in the keys" incident to claim persecution, although the SI was redoing all the locks, so everyone had to turn in their current keys. He also lost his office, oh no, persecution! Yeah, he was part of a larger shuffle of personnel, and got a nice new office.

BTW, I hope he finally learned to keep proper care of our artifacts. He should have been fired just for that gross negligence.

587 posted on 04/29/2008 5:17:54 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: tpanther
One day liberals will decide it’s best for you and everyone else

I don't want liberals deciding what's best for me. But I also don't want Christians or Muslims deciding either.

588 posted on 04/29/2008 5:22:38 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: tpanther
THIS CHRISTIAN-HATING MADNESS MUST STOP

Very true. However, I would also like to see the atheist-hating madness stop, and the idea that Christians are superior and have special privileges stop.

589 posted on 04/29/2008 5:24:39 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: tpanther
tpanther said: thanks...I guess now some people know what’s wrong with me eh? LOL

I'd say you had quite a blessing, tpanther, and God had something for you to do.

I can't believe how our scoffers cling on to an fairy tale thought up a hundred years ago...compared to what God tells us in the Bible.

He told us everything from beginning to end.

I'm going to post a few of the things God said about "this world":

Matthew 12

31 “So I tell you, every sin and blasphemy can be forgiven—except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which will never be forgiven.

32 Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, either in this world or in the world to come.

***You hear that folks...the world to COME...not this world.****

33 “A tree is identified by its fruit. If a tree is good, its fruit will be good. If a tree is bad, its fruit will be bad.

34 You brood of snakes! How could evil men like you speak what is good and right? For whatever is in your heart determines what you say.

35 A good person produces good things from the treasury of a good heart, and an evil person produces evil things from the treasury of an evil heart.

36 And I tell you this, you must give an account on judgment day for every idle word you speak.

37 The words you say will either acquit you or condemn you.”

Matthew 19:28 Jesus replied, “I assure you that when the world is made new and the Son of Man sits upon his glorious throne, you who have been my followers will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Mark 10:30 will receive now in return a hundred times as many houses, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and property—along with persecution. And in the world to come that person will have eternal life.

Luke 18:30 will be repaid many times over in this life, and will have eternal life in the world to come.”

John 8:23 Jesus continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You belong to this world; I do not.

John 12:25 Those who love their life in this world will lose it. Those who care nothing for their life in this world will keep it for eternity.

John 13:1 [ Jesus Washes His Disciples’ Feet ] Before the Passover celebration, Jesus knew that his hour had come to leave this world and return to his Father. He had loved his disciples during his ministry on earth, and now he loved them to the very end.

John 14:30 “I don’t have much more time to talk to you, because the ruler of this world approaches. He has no power over me,

John 15:19 The world would love you as one of its own if you belonged to it, but you are no longer part of the world. I chose you to come out of the world, so it hates you.

John 17:14 I have given them your word. And the world hates them because they do not belong to the world, just as I do not belong to the world.

1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God. As the Scriptures say,“He traps the wise in the snare of their own cleverness.”

1 Corinthians 6:2 Don’t you realize that someday we believers will judge the world? And since you are going to judge the world, can’t you decide even these little things among yourselves?

1 Corinthians 7:31 Those who use the things of the world should not become attached to them. For this world as we know it will soon pass away.

1 Corinthians 15:19 And if our hope in Christ is only for this life, we are more to be pitied than anyone in the world.

2 Corinthians 4:4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.

Galatians 1:4 Jesus gave his life for our sins, just as God our Father planned, in order to rescue us from this evil world in which we live.

Ephesians 1:21 Now he is far above any ruler or authority or power or leader or anything else—not only in this world but also in the world to come.

Ephesians 2:2 You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.

Ephesians 5:5 You can be sure that no immoral, impure, or greedy person will inherit the Kingdom of Christ and of God. For a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world.

Ephesians 6:12 For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places.

Colossians 2:8 Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.

Colossians 3:5 So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world.

Titus 2:12 And we are instructed to turn from godless living and sinful pleasures. We should live in this evil world with wisdom, righteousness, and devotion to God,

Hebrews 2:5 [ Jesus, the Man ] And furthermore, it is not angels who will control the future world we are talking about.

1 John 4:5 Those people belong to this world, so they speak from the world’s viewpoint, and the world listens to them.

1 John 4:9 God showed how much he loved us by sending his one and only Son into the world so that we might have eternal life through him.

1 John 4:17 And as we live in God, our love grows more perfect. So we will not be afraid on the day of judgment, but we can face him with confidence because we live like Jesus here in this world.

1 John 5:4 For every child of God defeats this evil world, and we achieve this victory through our faith.

1 John 5:5 And who can win this battle against the world? Only those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

1 John 5:19 We know that we are children of God and that the world around us is under the control of the evil one.

2 John 1:7 I say this because many deceivers have gone out into the world. They deny that Jesus Christ came in a real body. Such a person is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Jude 1:15 to execute judgment on the people of the world. He will convict every person of all the ungodly things they have done and for all the insults that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

Revelation 6:10 They shouted to the Lord and said, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you judge the people who belong to this world and avenge our blood for what they have done to us?”

Revelation 11:10 All the people who belong to this world will gloat over them and give presents to each other to celebrate the death of the two prophets who had tormented them.

Revelation 13:3 I saw that one of the heads of the beast seemed wounded beyond recovery—but the fatal wound was healed! The whole world marveled at this miracle and gave allegiance to the beast.

Revelation 13:8 And all the people who belong to this world worshiped the beast. They are the ones whose names were not written in the Book of Life before the world was made—the Book that belongs to the Lamb who was slaughtered.

I hate to see anyone lost, but we know there will be some that refuse God's offer to us.

Salvation Is for Everyone

5 For Moses writes that the law’s way of making a person right with God requires obedience to all of its commands.

6 But faith’s way of getting right with God says, “Don’t say in your heart, ‘Who will go up to heaven’ (to bring Christ down to earth).

7 And don’t say, ‘Who will go down to the place of the dead’ (to bring Christ back to life again).”

8 In fact, it says,“The message is very close at hand; it is on your lips and in your heart.” And that message is the very message about faith that we preach:

9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved.

11 As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.”

12 Jew and Gentile are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him.

13 For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

14 But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them?

15 And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent? That is why the Scriptures say, “How beautiful are the feet of messengers who bring good news!”

16 But not everyone welcomes the Good News, for Isaiah the prophet said, “Lord, who has believed our message?”

17 So faith comes from hearing, that is, hearing the Good News about Christ.

18 But I ask, have the people of Israel actually heard the message? Yes, they have:

“The message has gone throughout the earth, and the words to all the world.”

19 But I ask, did the people of Israel really understand? Yes, they did, for even in the time of Moses, God said,

“I will rouse your jealousy through people who are not even a nation. I will provoke your anger through the foolish Gentiles.”

20 And later Isaiah spoke boldly for God, saying,

“I was found by people who were not looking for me. I showed myself to those who were not asking for me.”

21 But regarding Israel, God said, “All day long I opened my arms to them, but they were disobedient and rebellious.”

Where is each of you going to make your home? Heaven or Hell for all eternity...it's your choice.

Look up...Jesus is coming back soon!!!

590 posted on 04/29/2008 5:25:44 PM PDT by Ready2go (Isa 5:20 Destruction is certain for those who say that evil is good and good is evil;)
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To: AndrewC
Why do you say it was underhanded?

Nobody was notified that the center was being created and Dembski and his colleague were hired without consult. Isn't it kind of strange the faculty first learned of it when the web site went up?

The president and those in the IFL evidently had the power to do what was done.

As far as I know, the IFL wasn't part of it. The president wanted to create a vehicle specifically for Dembski's work.

If anybody had a say about the actions of the president it would have been the Board of Regents.

A president of a university generally wants to keep the faculty happy. Without faculty, you have no university. Well, unless you want to be one of those religious diploma mills that gave Kent Hovind, Carl Baugh and many other creationists their degrees.

591 posted on 04/29/2008 5:34:22 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat
BTW, I hope he finally learned to keep proper care of our artifacts. He should have been fired just for that gross negligence.

Which ones did he lose or destroy. Read the emails. Someone offered to sponsor him.

592 posted on 04/29/2008 5:58:50 PM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: antiRepublicrat
Nobody was notified that the center was being created and Dembski and his colleague were hired without consult

Show me where it was required to do what you assert.

As far as I know, the IFL wasn't part of it. The president wanted to create a vehicle specifically for Dembski's work

Wrong.

The Academic Intelligent Design Controversy: William Dembski and Baylor University

The concept for creating such a center was sparked after Dr. Michael Beatty, director of the Institute of Faith and Learning and philosophy professor, and Dr. Donald Schmeltekopf, provost and vice-president of academic affairs, read the articles of director William Dembski.

They approached Dembski with the idea of creating a research center that would be a component of the Institute of Faith and Learning.

I'm sure that your assertion about the desires of a university president are true, but considerations of the purpose of the university and the desires of the regents as expressed by the president, I believe, surmount any desires of the faculty. From the same reference.

The criticism culminated in September in the senate's harshly worded no-confidence vote. Regents responded at the time by voting 31-4 to reaffirm Sloan, but the turmoil didn't go away. In February, committees appointed to look into the alleged problems issued reports acknowledging the strife and calling on Sloan to heal the division. Last month, Sloan wrote regents, complaining that his critics were orchestrating a letter-writing campaign against him to wear the regents down.

Finally, horror of horrors, a Baptist University tried to add this to the school policy.

Senators said a breaking point was a proposed addition to school policy that faculty found a threat to academic freedom. The new policy would discourage research and teaching about "practices inconsistent with Baptist faith or practice."

Again, this was all fomented due to the establishment of a department outside "of the walls" that surround the science departments.

593 posted on 04/29/2008 6:20:24 PM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: AndrewC
I'm saying I agree entirely with what you conceive of as an arrowhead, save passing your functional test.

I don't consider it an arrowhead if it will not actually be an arrowhead. Weird, huh?

594 posted on 04/29/2008 7:20:18 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: AndrewC
Not when it is dried. I suppose Nescafe® is trying to foist a fraud on me with freeze-dried coffee.

Some people would think so. Is a dried-up ocean still an ocean, or a dead person still a person? Is dehydrated water still water?

595 posted on 04/29/2008 7:22:29 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic
I don't consider it an arrowhead if it will not actually be an arrowhead.

You provided me one that passed the test. Now I've got another that has not yet passed your test. Name your test, and tell me why it determines "arrowheadness". You demand the same of ID.

596 posted on 04/29/2008 7:26:41 PM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: tacticalogic
Some people would think so. Is a dried-up ocean still an ocean, or a dead person still a person? Is dehydrated water still water?

Ahh, the Clinton defense. Didn't work before, it won't work now. BTW don't bother to answer my other post. You ain't worth the effort. What you have posted up to now gives a clear indication of your disengenuousness.

597 posted on 04/29/2008 7:31:57 PM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: AndrewC
You provided me one that passed the test. Now I've got another that has not yet passed your test. Name your test, and tell me why it determines "arrowheadness".

Put it on a shaft and go hunting, and let anyone else who'd like to try it out do the same. Let's see what the results are.

598 posted on 04/29/2008 7:34:59 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: AndrewC

Hearing footsteps?


599 posted on 04/29/2008 7:36:08 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic
Hearing footsteps?

Nope just disengenuousness from you.

600 posted on 04/29/2008 7:39:51 PM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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