Posted on 04/21/2008 7:23:01 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
In Ben Stein's new film "Expelled," there is a great scene where Richard Dawkins is going on about how evolution explains everything. This is part of Dawkins' grand claim, which echoes through several of his books, that evolution by itself has refuted the argument from design. The argument from design hold that the design of the universe and of life are most likely the product of an intelligent designer. Dawkins thinks that Darwin has disproven this argument.
So Stein puts to Dawkins a simple question, "How did life begin?" One would think that this is a question that could be easily answered. Dawkins, however, frankly admits that he has no idea. One might expect Dawkins to invoke evolution as the all-purpose explanation. Evolution, however, only explains transitions from one life form to another. Evolution has no explanation for how life got started in the first place. Darwin was very clear about this.
In order for evolution to take place, there had to be a living cell. The difficulty for atheists is that even this original cell is a work of labyrinthine complexity. Franklin Harold writes in The Way of the Cell that even the simplest cells are more ingeniously complicated than man's most elaborate inventions: the factory system or the computer. Moreover, Harold writes that the various components of the cell do not function like random widgets; rather, they work purposefully together, as if cooperating in a planned organized venture. Dawkins himself has described the cell as the kind of supercomputer, noting that it functions through an information system that resembles the software code.
Is it possible that living cells somehow assembled themselves from nonliving things by chance? The probabilities here are so infinitesimal that they approach zero. Moreover, the earth has been around for some 4.5 billion years and the first traces of life have already been found at some 3.5 billion years ago. This is just what we have discovered: it's quite possible that life existed on earth even earlier. What this means is that, within the scope of evolutionary time, life appeared on earth very quickly after the earth itself was formed. Is it reasonable to posit that a chance combination of atoms and molecules, under those conditions, somehow generated a living thing? Could the random collision of molecules somehow produce a computer?
It is ridiculously implausible to think so. And the absurdity was recognized more than a decade ago by Francis Crick, co-discoverer of the DNA double helix. Yet Crick is a committed atheist. Unwilling to consider the possibility of divine or supernatural creation, Crick suggested that maybe aliens brought life to earth from another planet. And this is precisely the suggestion that Richard Dawkins makes in his response to Ben Stein. Perhaps, he notes, life was delivered to our planet by highly-evolved aliens. Let's call this the "ET" explanation.
Stein brilliantly responds that he had no idea Richard Dawkins believes in intelligent design! And indeed Dawkins does seem to be saying that alien intelligence is responsible for life arriving on earth. What are we to make of this? Basically Dawkins is surrendering on the claim that evolution can account for the origins of life. It can't. The issue now is simply whether a natural intelligence (ET) or a supernatural intelligence (God) created life. Dawkins can't bear the supernatural explanation and so he opts for ET. But doesn't it take as much, or more, faith to believe in extraterrestrial biology majors depositing life on earth than it does to believe in a transcendent creator?
Your post 191
The film was not to present theories of ID
Apparently it didn't. It did present scientific theory.
The film features Raelians, does it?
Indeed. It presented pamspermia as a theory of the established scientific community, not ID. That’s what I said in the first place.
Go see the film. Then you might gain some credibility.
I’ll take that as a “No.”
What do you think panspermia is, Neo-Darwinism? But again, you asked if you mischaracterized the film when you did not answer whether you had seen it or not. The film was not to present theories of ID. The film was to discuss a "non-controversy" controversy.
Well, the suceeded in not presenting the theories of ID. "Non-controversy" controversy sounds like some politician trying to appear to say something without really doing it.
Well, since you need explanation, the Darwinists think there is no controversy since ID is religion, yet there is a controversy since NCSE attacks the movie for discussing a "non-controversy". Plus there are examples of "unfair" treatment of individuals who so much as mention "ID". This was explicitly admitted to, for one case, by someone representing Iowa State University. So there is a controversy.
Well then we have more, if you count the “non-controvery” between ID and pamspermia, versus the perception of ID that people seem to be leaving the movie with.
I would say I am refraining from such a leap by sticking to what I know - that matter and radiation behave according to the same laws in every observation that we make, without exception.
Entropy as we know isn't just limited mechanical systems. It is alive and well in the transmission of information which is why evolution is simply not possible.
This statement of yours is entirely unwarranted. The connection of entropy to information originated with Shannon when he introduced the term by analogy with thermodynamic entropy. It is not a property of information per se, but of a communication channel. Higher entropy means a greater information carrying capacity as defined by the log of the number of equally probable outcomes of a received message.
In this definition it has no direct connection to thermodynamic entropy. I know many have tried to make the connection. I have a book entitled Entropy, Information, and Evolution which I bought some years ago, but I never felt it contributed much.
Certainly, it is possible to calculate the thermodynamic entropy of organized versus unorganized systems of molecules ( entropy of mixing ) but one finds in this case that the decrease in entropy required by organization is much smaller than the entropy associated with small temperature changes.
In the earth environment with its constant bath of solar radiation, the 2nd Law presents no barrier whatsoever to self-organization. It's true that our grasp on the possible pathways for self-organization is tenuous, and we see little success in theories of life origin. Nevertheless, there are no grounds for declaring that a correct theory is impossible, even if we despair of ever arriving at it ( which I do not. )
Dr Lew,
According to your way of thinking, Venus and Mercury should have far more advanced life than here on Earth.
Best Regards,
Boiler Plate
Well maybe, but panspermia is not the "dogma" and does not "control" things so as to treat people who mention "ID" unfairly.
There is nothing new under the sun.- Solomon
There are practical reasons why trying to put ID on "equal footing" with ToE in the context of science and scientific research. The proponents of ID seem determined that those reasons either don't exist, or don't have anything to do with the situation. They're getting a little to good at playing the victim for me to have a lot of sympathy for them at this point.
I made that point in a previous post.
You don't "play" the victim when you are the victim. I'm sure that the simple mention of ID is not equal footing with current dogma, but that is what is attacked. NCSE exists solely for this "non-controversy".
There are always "practical" reasons for actions. They are "practical" to the practitioners.
“Current dogma” is that scientific theories need to be testable in order to be able to do research on them. Maybe that’s not fair, but that’s how it is.
Bull, science begins with observation(research), followed by hypothesis then theory. Surely, Darwin's boat trip was research and considered science. The hypothesis stage of ID is not allowed by current dogma.
BTW, Dawkins gave evidence that ID as a "theory" was testable.
Would you mind explaining how you do research on a theory that there is no way to ever determine whether it is correct or not? If it’s testable, what is the test?
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