Posted on 04/21/2008 6:19:21 PM PDT by greyfoxx39
SAN ANGELO, Texas — A judge wants attorneys representing FLDS mothers and children to ask local LDS congregations if they would be willing to "provide a buffer" for FLDS members who wish to pray in groups at a temporary shelter. Judge Barbara Walther made the decision late Monday afternoon at a hearing to address three issues brought by attorneys representing mothers of children who remain in a state shelter. A total of 416 children were removed from the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch earlier this month as part of a child-abuse investigation.
The group of mothers filed court papers earlier Monday demanding their rights to pray in private without having a Texas Department of Family and Protective Services worker overseeing them. They also filed a motion asking the judge to allow them to stay with their nursing children and asked for access to telephones to communicate with their attorneys.
Addressing the concerns about prayer, Walther said she was aware of a community of members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in San Angelo. While acknowledging LDS Church members are not from the same group, she asked attorneys to see if the LDS faith would be willing to monitor the prayer services of the women and children who remain in the shelter.
"How would I stop someone from practicing their faith?" the judge asked. She acknowledged concerns from Texas child welfare authorities about improper communications between mothers and children that could occur in such private prayer times and have an affect on the pending investigations.
"If they cross the line or coach the child or make any kind of comment on litigation, all bets are off," Walther said.
The president of the LDS Abilene Texas Stake, which oversees San Angelo, was surprised by the judge's request.
"They think we're the same ones because we use the Book of Mormon," said Charles L. Webb. "I'm dumbfounded they would suggest that."
Webb plans to contact church headquarters in Salt Lake City for guidance.
The judge did say if that fails, she would look at other options.
Regarding breast-feeding, the judge said attorneys ad litem should be working with Texas child protective services workers in mediation to solve that problem, declining to consider the motion to order that nursing mothers remain in the shelter with their children.
Last week, mothers of children over 4 years old were separated from their children and sent back to their homes. Texas child welfare officials have said the mothers that remain with their young children in the temporary shelters will eventually be separated as foster families and foster homes are located.
On the issue of the FLDS women and children being allowed contact with attorneys, the judge ordered eight phone lines to be set up — six for the children and two for the mothers — with 24-hour access to their attorneys.
Lawyers for Department of Family and Protective Services said they had already set up the phone lines earlier Monday.
At the end of the hearing, an attorney asked the judge to consider her motion to stop the separation of mothers from their children. The judge said she hadn't seen the motion, noting that she had a large stack of motions to go over.
When the attorney pressed her to consider it immediately, Walther stood up and announced, "Ladies and gentleman, this hearing is concluded," and abruptly left the bench.
In the motion, attorney Andrea Sloan asked the judge to allow the women and children 30 minutes in the morning and again at night to pray in private. "Without exception, respondent mothers have reported that the department will not let them pray without being monitored by the department," Sloan wrote.
Attorneys were also pushing to keep a group of nursing mothers from being separated from their children, pending the results of DNA testing currently under way in San Angelo. "Some of respondent mothers are currently parenting children under the age of 2 years of age and are still breast-feeding," the motion stated.
The women's attorneys also filed motions arguing that when cell phones were taken from the women, they lost the ability to communicate effectively with their clients. The cell phones were taken the day after members of the FLDS Church inside the Fort Concho shelter spoke out to the Deseret News, complaining of cramped conditions.
The women provided the Deseret News with photographs taken by a cell phone to show the conditions. Shortly afterward, they were all moved to the San Angelo Coliseum, where some of the children have remained.
The motions were filed in 51st District Court today by attorneys for Charlotte Johnson, Suzanne Johnson, Sarah Johnson, Angela Harker and other mothers of children taken from the YFZ Ranch near Eldorado.
Authorities began collecting DNA samples Monday morning from children taken from the ranch, the Texas Attorney General's Office said.
The children were to be given a cheek swab, then photographed and fingerprinted. They have each been assigned a number to identify them and the sample they gave.
"We began the process this morning and anticipate working on this throughout the week," said Janece Rolfe, a spokeswoman for the Texas attorney general. "It will be about 30 days to receive results, maybe a little longer."
Judge Barbara Walther signed court papers this morning ordering the DNA samples.
"The Court finds that an unknown number of males of reproductive age reside, or have resided, at the ranch during the probable time of conception of one or more of the children the subject of this suit," her order says. "The court further finds that an unknown number of females of child bearing age reside, or have resided at the ranch and could be the mother of one or more children the subject of this suit."
The order lists the hundreds of names of parents and children that are known at the YFZ Ranch, including FLDS leader Warren Jeffs, who it lists as being in "prison."
The parents on the YFZ Ranch are expected to show up at the Schleicher County Memorial Building in Eldorado on Tuesday to give a DNA sample. At the makeshift shelter at the San Angelo Coliseum and the Cal Farley Boy's Ranch, where the FLDS children have been staying since they were taken into state custody, children were giving samples.
The Texas Department of Family and Protective Services said it is still having trouble identifying individual children and who their parents are.
"We're still not getting names," said child protective services spokesman Greg Cunningham. "We don't know who are siblings, mothers, fathers."
The raid on the YFZ Ranch was prompted by a phone call to a San Angelo family crisis center from a 16-year-old girl who claimed she was abused, pregnant and married to a 50-year-old man. Authorities have not been able to identify her, but said that when they went onto the ranch to investigate the complaint they found signs of other children being abused.
That led to the judge's order removing all 416 children from the ranch. Last week, Walther ordered that all children will remain in state custody.
Once the DNA samples are gathered, Cunningham said they will move forward with placing the children in foster care.
"We've got some of the placements lined up, but we're still waiting for some guidance from the court," he said.
Child protective services said the children will be kept in groups, including teenage mothers with their children and siblings grouped together. The children would likely not be going to a typical foster home, Cunningham said.
"It's a home-type setting. A majority of them would go to a residential facility," he said. "There are several different options out there."
Authorities refused to discuss how the children would be transitioned from the San Angelo Coliseum to foster care because of security reasons.
Outside the coliseum today, the police presence has been heavy. Texas state troopers, Tom Green County sheriff's deputies, San Angelo police and unmarked patrol cars have all been seen circling the large parking lot surrounding the building.
Texas Case: **TEXAS Case: 142 children gave birth!** 63 were raped!
Of course, that is not at the FLDS ranch. That was within the Texas Foster Care system in 2004.
"In 2004, noted Strayhorn, 38 foster children were killed; 48 were killed the following year. In addition, "about 100 children received treatment for poisoning from medications; 63 foster children received medical treatment for rape that occurred while in the foster care system; and 142 children gave birth while in the state foster care system."
hat tip:William N. Grigg http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2008/04/collectivist-child-abuse.html
Hundreds of children and scores of mothers have been separated from each other for two weeks and no end is in sight. The State of Texas is exceeding its authority and we have seen little proof of more than a few child mothers. Even under age mothers should be with their natural children as long as the adult man who is the father is restricted from abusive contact.
Its time for writs of habeas corpus, ‘the fundamental instrument for safeguarding individual freedom against arbitrary and lawless state action.’ Harris v. Nelson, 394 U.S. 286, 290-91 (1969).
Actually, in this country, children have the right not to be married and have sex with adult men. It appears that TX is trying to enforce this law.
susie
It’s not about the polygamy...it’s about the underage girls being forced into sex/spiritual marriage with adult men.
susie
Can you suggest a better way the state could have handled this?
susie
The difference between Wright and the FLDS is the difference between BELIEF and PRACTICE.
Wright’s hideous and well-documented ugliness has not resulted in any law breaking. They aren’t kidnapping whitey, torturing whitey, killing whitey, whatever. They may extol it and promote it, but they aren’t doing it.
Whereas, the FLDS’ hideous and well-documented ugliness regarding the nuptials of adolescent and even pre-pubescent girls, the physical abuse of kids, and the abandonment of male children, is actually being done. Or so it is alleged, and there seems to be plenty of evidence for prosecution.
They have to defend it because it is preached in their LDS temples. Let’s face it. If the Mormons could have their way, they would live under the Book of Mormon, without the constraints of the US government.
**Perhaps they’re just not interested.**
Oh, they are interested. You can bet they are watching every FLDS thread, just as I often read threads without posting on them.
Not necessarily. Some people do have other interests and other demands on their time.
At any rate it would be foolish to presume that because certain LDS posters are not commenting on FLDS threads, then they are de facto supporters of the polygamists.
Some might be, but you don’t really know if they do not say as much.
I think the age in TX is actually 17.
susie
Where do you get this stuff? Did your preacher tell you this one sunny Sunday morning?
finally a post directed to me and now i am so tired i cannot think straight...we will probably be on the same threads tomorrow anyway,,goodnite all
Sleep well. I should go to bed too...
susie
No.
It’s logical.
If you believe the Book of Mormon and what it preaches, wouldn’t you want to live under the “law” and the life as described in that book?
If not, are then you would have to ask yourself if you are a Mormon.
Because I am a Christian, I read the Holy Bible, agree with its law and the life it describes, and I strive to live under that law and live that life as close as humanly possible. This is part of my walk with Christ. To NOT do this, would mean I am not a Christian.
So, you want to get rid of the Constitution and have the Holy Bible as the only law?
If they lived under the BM they would not commit polygamy since the BM expressly condemns it. But then, the author of that book couldn’t remember from one week to the next what he had fabricated and conveniently ignored what he had fabricated in order to get his sexual lusts fulfilled. When his wife called him out on it, he fabricated a threat from god to haul her into line. It didn’t really work though, she stayed in IL with the land deeds and Joseph Smith ‘Translation’ of the King James Bible (into King James English) when the adulterous peepstone false prophet was out of her hair and mormon heirarchy went West.
“The children may know who their real parents are... but that may not be the ‘mother’ and ‘father’ they are living with.”
There are several possibilities, and I know at times kids and mothers were moved from one location to another. I just think the notion several had last night that few if any of the kids knew who their parents were was just assuming the worst with no real basis for it.
And I do believe it makes perfect sense for the kids to be taught not to tell outsiders who their parents are. The polygamists must know they could be investigated at any time, and if enough kids told who their parents are, they would have provided evidence of the polygamous families.
And even though most everyone knows they are polygamists, evidence still has to be gathered to prove it. I think that’s why those kids played dumb, or gave confusing answers to the authorities in Texas, not because the didn’t know who their parents are.
the children would not face immediate sexual or physical harm if returned to their parents.
++++++++++++++++++++
Which parents and in which complex in what states? Do we know if some of the children are even with their biological parents now? Some have no birth certificates, some can’t or won’t say who their parents are. Some mothers may be covering for other mothers who may be too young to claim their child fearing being found out as being too young.
Let’s wait for the DNA results. I think a great deal more is going to come out after the DNA results are scrutinized.
Go back and re-read the post.
If you are living the life under your religion, and following its law, the law of the state does not stand above it.
I am subject to the laws of America and I live under the rule of the the US Constitution, thankfully.
But, my life as a Christian rises above my life as an American.
I am both at the same time, I easily give to Caesar that which is his, as commanded by Christ.
And yet, if my faith in Christ could relieve me from one or two cumbersome laws in the US, I would rejoice. If the fabric of America was altered through my faith in Christ and that of of other Christians, then my life would be enriched. You could start with abortion, heavy taxation, the Dept. of Education... any of those. If they were thwarted through the power of Christ, then I could more fully live my life as a Christian.
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