Spain appeals to NATO, US to help end Somali hostage crisis ( Four pirates )

AFP ^ | April 21, 2008

[J Aguilar]

True it is no your problem.

But remember who is running Spain, because the used to be portrayed as some kind Freedom Fighters in your media.

Would they do what they are doing if the blame were put on them instead on Spain as a whole?

[J Aguilar]

Point 1: Try to avoid using Lydon LaRouche as a reference.. Here in the United States he is regarded as a fool and criminal, in fact a CONVICTED, SENTENCED and TIME SERVED fool and criminal.

Frank Gaffney agrees with such fool and criminal. Enough?

Point 2: You can twist and turn the politics of Spain and put the blame for the vote to “succumb to Muslim wishes” on any “group” you please — It doesn’t alter the fact that Spain responded as defeated women to the terrorist attacks..

True, but the fact is that it was a coup in which participated much of the media providing false information in order to manipulate a population that has no experience in democracy.

The Attack on America was far more severe and unpredicted. America responded with responses that have informed the world they put their very existence at risk to ^&*%^ with us. My only regret is we didn’t go far enough by leaving several cities as ruined FORMER cities...

True, but America was not adecuately disinformed, and due to its long experience in Democracy, manipulation attempts aren't easy there.

[J Aguilar]

The Spaniards voted in an environment where the government was blamed for the attacks nationally and internationally, where the right wing PP offices were assaulted, whilst 190 bodies were awaiting for burial and whilst hundreds fight for recovery in hospitals.

And all that just changed one million votes out of 23.

[Don Carlos]

Agree with all you have said. Can you explain the recent socialist win?

[J Aguilar]

Sure. Check this:

Zapatero Confesses Tension is Needed to Win the Elections

and this:

Strategy of Tension: ETA Murders Again Two Days Before the National Elections

Killing a Socialist that look like an usual citizen, prompted many leftist voters that otherwise would stay home, to come out and vote two days later, as they felt "attacked". It is known as Strategy of Tension, a way manipulating the public opinon through violence.

Moreover, we also can enjoy in Spain COINTELPRO, that is, counterintelligence procedures to tackle the opposition:

3/11: The Spanish Supreme Court, Stormed (Read preferably the second part, the one about Alcaraz, accused of slandering the government).

You may continue with this:

3/11: The Repression Begins

and if you have some time left, check this too:

3/11: Bikers and Jews

You are lucky for having your enemy far far away.

[Lurker]

Its a very very expensive kind of security.

I can put together a squad of trained personnel in 90 days trained and ready to go, complete with their own weapons.

The fee will be $1,000.00 per man per day, plus expenses.

L

[Owl558]

“Would they do what they are doing if the blame were put on them instead on Spain as a whole?”

It really depends on how ideolgically driven these folks are. My imperfect impression is that they’re perfectly happy screwing Spain over and make no secret of it (i.e. ideology/party trumps good of the nation).

That this is blamed on Spain as a whole is where the Spanish people’s responsibility begins. They have elected them twice and, therefore, we know exactly where the Spanish people stand on this issue. This has nothing to do with any portrayal in the US media and has everything to do with leftist ideology and the gullibility of Spanish voters. Spanish voters knew exactly what they were doing (vis-a-vis screwing over America) when they elected these people. They seem to have forgotten that the bad guys consider Andelusia (sic) THEIR land irrerspective of what America does.

Spanish voters made this bed, not America, and now they have to lie in it. For good or bad, we (Americans) are not going to forget any time soon. Spain is on its own.

[Don Carlos]

Thanks so much! Bookmarked page for future reference.

[KarinG1]

The Spaniards voted in an environment where the government was blamed for the attacks nationally and internationally, where the right wing PP offices were assaulted, whilst 190 bodies were awaiting for burial and whilst hundreds fight for recovery in hospitals.

And they voted to surrender to the terrorists. That's what Zapatero promised, and it's why he won. For what it's worth, I blame any and all terrorist attacks on terrorists. I also blame kidnapping on kidnappers. I was merely reflecting on the irony of Spain coming to the U.S. for help after they ran out on us so recently.

[river rat]

"Frank Gaffney agrees with such fool and criminal. Enough?"

Gaffney is a far more reliable source -- but Gaffney only REPORTS the rumors and suspicions - as yet UNPROVED.
He hasn't accepted the rumors or speculations as FACTUAL - yet.

See him quoted below.

"Either way, if the leads published in recent days pan out, it would appear that Spain’s 2004 elections were stolen by terrorists, alright. But the terrorist operation that brought the socialists to power may have been an inside job — in effect, a coup perpetrated by some of the same authorities who are responsible for preventing terror. Explosive stuff, if true. But all preliminary and speculative right now."

Even in America - we see the Socialists, Leftists, Communists, Black Racists and all manner of scalawags -- seem to be allies of the militant Islamists.
They all seem to ascribe to the belief that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" --- since they all harbor some level of hatred for America..

It appears that Spain's Leftists may be no different.

Sooner or later - the Islamic republics fostering and feeding the militant Islamic Jihad, will have to suffer horrific consequences -- REALLY horrific consequences for the horror they have unleashed upon the world...

Unfortunately -- I fear there are no alternatives if the violence and terrorism against the non Muslim world continues...

[J Aguilar]

Spanish voters knew exactly what they were doing (vis-a-vis screwing over America) when they elected these people.

That is simply not true.

First of all, the Spanish Socialist Party wrote in his electoral program that the Spanish forces in Iraq would leave the country, if they won, in June 2004 UNLESS there were then a new UN resolution on the occupation of the country.

Zapatero ordered the withdrawn of Spanish forces on April 19th against what he had promised. The decission to slap the Americans on the face, and to use the Spanish Armed Forces -opposed to the Socialist- to do it (as humilliation), was taken in order to link 3/11 with Iraq, to islamize an attack that had nothing of Islamic.

BTW, in June it was approved a new UN resolution on Iraq.

Second, Spain is not a country of free speech or free public opinion. On the contrary, the oligarchs that own the media lean towards the Socialist, because they both hate freedom. Most Spaniards didn't and don't know what they choose. They are not free to decide.

IMHO, that does not mean that they are not responsible on what is going on, but that is one thing and other is to affirm that they choose freely to be in bad terms with America.

[J Aguilar]

As I said in the previous post, Spaniards did not choose to ran out from the US. That decision was taken by Zapatero in order to link 3/11 with Iraq against what the Socialist party itself had promised.

[J Aguilar]

river rat,

It was not an attack with Islamic characteristics, no matter what the media tells. Islamists don't manipulate elections.

Moreover, Spanish justice has been unable to find the mastermind, and between the three top convicted, there is one Christian, and they other two left in their taped phone calls pretty clear that they were not Islamists.

If political manipulation is pursued, we are before a Strategy of Tension. And that means internal interests, usually linked to oligarchies, that is, an inside job.

IMHO, what Gaffney does is leaving a sign to experienced readers that might already suspect what is really going on. It is unnecesary for people with a background in foreign relations and the cold war in Europe to say anymore.

[Owl558]

So you’re saying that the Spanish people had no idea that Zapatero and the Socialists wanted to withdraw from Iraq? Come on, man, that sounds pretty silly. I knew, my relatives in Europe knew. How come you didn’t know? His resolution requirement was clearly a lie. Are the Spanish people that unsophisticated, and gullable? I take your word, but am very doubtful. I think the vast majority of Spanish have willfully and knowingly jumped into the totalitarian black hole (trading freedom for dubious security). You may be an exception, but not the rule.

[KarinG1]

Why don't you just accept that you are wrong and suck it up, like an American would do?

[river rat]

"Islamists don't manipulate elections."

Really?
There is NOTHING Islamists won't do or haven't already done to manipulate elections, voters, countries or ANYTHING that gets in the way of them achieving their goals...

Surely you don't believe Islamists were not involved in a central role in Spain's train bombings -- or would not even consider such an act of terrorism to frighten voters into making political decisions favorable to the Islamist's cause?

It's possible non-Islamists were involved -- as allies, due to a shared enemy -- the conservative government -- and accepted the more than eager help from Islamists...
All countries have traitors who cooperate with other traitors from different "organizations" who share a common goal or agenda...

I'm sure time will reveal the truth about Spain's bombings...

Militant Muslims have been killing political opponents and leaders of political movements who have stood in opposition to their world wide goals for CENTURIES.

Lebanon alone, has had 5 anti-Islamic political leaders assassinated since 2005 - Mr. Gemayel is the fifth anti-Syrian figure to be killed since Mr. Hariri’s assassination in February 2005.

I firmly believe there are no actions militant Islamists would avoid - if it furthered their goal -- INCLUDING manipulating elections...

Just as I believe there are no actions we should avoid if it brings the militant Islamic world to total and unconditional defeat...... NO ACT.

[J Aguilar]

Believe it or not, but it is a FACT that what the Socialist party was saying was that Spain would withdraw its troops from Iraq UNLESS there were a new UN resolution before June, that was when our term expired.

And there was a new UN resolution before June. So the Socialist party did not fulfill its own promises.

Again, I repeat, the Socialist party promised in its program to withdraw from Iraq in June, when the term expired (as other nations have done) unless there was a new UN resolution before.

Therefore, the Socialist party did not fulfill its own program, its own promises in order to use the withdrawn from Iraq as a way to link 3/11, an attack that does not have Islamic characteristics, to the war in Iraq.

Spaniards cannot trade freedom for security because they are constantly attacked by the terrorist group ETA, by the way, not Islamist, and directed by the same people that ordered 3/11.

[J Aguilar]

Where am I wrong?

[J Aguilar]

river rat,

It's possible non-Islamists were involved -- as allies, due to a shared enemy -- the conservative government -- and accepted the more than eager help from Islamists...

If they are Islamist, they hate Christians. The Atheism of Reds is hated even more. There cannot be a collaboration between an Islamist and an impure, which means any non-Islamist.

I am sorry the media has kept all of you disinformed. In Spain, the situation is far worse but you might have now a glimpse of what is happening, on the chavization of the country.

I'm sure time will reveal the truth about Spain's bombings...

Not time, a criminal named Larouche.

Militant Muslims have been killing political opponents and leaders of political movements who have stood in opposition to their world wide goals for CENTURIES.

They never got involved in the decadent Christian politics.

Just as I believe there are no actions we should avoid if it brings the militant Islamic world to total and unconditional defeat...... NO ACT.

Which won't happen as long as Islamism could be used by someone to push hidden agendas.

[KarinG1]

Where am I wrong?

In Spain, apparently. I'm almost certain it isn't in Texas.