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To: Dawnsblood
They also tested the XM8 in 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel.

Incredible!

The 6.5 Grendel, (on the 5.56 case form factor!) has better down range ballistics than the 7.62 NATO!

3 posted on 04/20/2008 11:59:43 AM PDT by MindBender26 (Leftists stop arguing when they see your patriotism, your logic, your CAR-15 and your block of C4.)
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To: MindBender26

Which just goes to show that the Goat Board, the Pig Board, the European ballistics tests... all have been proven right.

Again.

For the umpteenth time.

For some reason that I cannot fathom, the US military mind seems to gravitate to ideas that simply ignore vast amounts of ballistics research over the last 100 years.

The Garand was going to be chambered in .276 Pederson, but MacArthur vetoed the idea, mostly on supply logistics of the 30’s - we had a lot of .30-06 ammo on hand, and no .276 ammo. Simple decision.

When we got to the M-14, we had an opportunity to use superior ballistics, but the Army brass derided anything less than .30 cal bullets as being too small. Remember, it wasn’t that long ago for these guys that they were using .45-70’s in Trapdoor Springfields. So we got the 7.62x51 (.308).

The best exterior ballistics for a battle rifle are found in the .264 to .284 caliber range, depending on the length and configuration of the bullet, and in the 140 to 165 grain bullet weight.

The next “sweet spot” in exterior ballistics is about .338 to .340, in bullets of 300 grains or so. These recoil far too heavily at 2500 fps muzzle velocities, and they weigh too much for supply logistics.

An even more dramatic demonstration of how real thought and design in bullets can lead to outstanding exterior ballistics is the .408 Cheyenne Tactical, out of a private-sector Idaho company. The .408 CheyTac can outshoot a .50BMG for long-range sniper and light armor penetration - out to 2,000 meters and beyond. That’s the result of starting a weapon design with the bullet, and nothing but the bullet, and then once you’ve found the superior bullet, you work forward from there.

The 5.56 round was a ridiculous compromise all the way around, an example of what happens when someone starts a design with the action, then the weapon, then the chambering, then the bullet. It is only today, after 40 years of service, that the M262 round (a 77gr bullet) has appeared to provide some ballistic performance for the M-16.

If we want superior long range ballistics in an infantry weapon, we should start with a 6.5mm (.264) bullet, in 140 to 160grains, like the Lapua Scenar bullets. Then we should decide on how fast we want to push it, (like 2800 fps or so) and decide on a case. Then we should look at a rifle to push it.

Want to see long-range shooting in the private sector?

Look at the 6.5x284 rifles today. Superior ballistics at 1,000 yards and beyond.


17 posted on 04/20/2008 12:17:29 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: MindBender26

It’s called sectional density. Weight to length ratio. The 6.5 has it in spades. The 6.5 Swede isn’t popular for nothing.

Truly a great bullet diameter and “do all” caliber.


22 posted on 04/20/2008 12:28:13 PM PDT by headstamp 2 (Been here before)
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To: MindBender26

The 6.5 Grendel, (on the 5.56 case form factor!)

what does that mean, exactly? I’m not green; I know what 5.56 means, but not familiar with the 6.5 Grendel terminology.

Thanks.


42 posted on 04/20/2008 1:23:49 PM PDT by Lee'sGhost (Johnny Rico picked the wrong girl!)
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To: MindBender26
6.5 Grendel.

Wasn't there a handgun called the Grendel a few years back? Looked sorta odd and fired the 22WMR? Anybody got a pic of that? Any relation between the two? I think I heard mixed reviews on the grendel pistol except that everybody agreed it was ugly.

76 posted on 04/21/2008 3:38:41 AM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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