Battle to retake Basra was 'complete disaster'

Telegraph (UK) ^ | 12:34am BST 20/04/2008 | Sean Rayment, Defence Correspondent

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

The British-trained Iraqi Army's attempt to retake Basra from militiamen was an "unmitigated disaster at every level", British commanders have disclosed.

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  Senior sources have said that the mission was undermined by incompetent officers and untrained troops who were sent into battle with inadequate supplies of food, water and ammunition.

  	Iraqi soldiers at the Divisional Training Centre outside Basra

  They said the failure had delayed the British withdrawal by "many months".
  
  Their comments came as the Iraqi army, this time directly supported by American and British forces, began a second operation in Basra in an attempt to find insurgent weapons caches.
  
  The push, which was met with fierce resistance, took place in the Hayania district of the city, where there were clashes two weeks ago.

  In the first operation, it is understood that one Iraqi brigade became a "busted flush" after 1,200 of its soldiers deserted.

  At one stage during the battle, stories were circulating at the British headquarters that Iraqi troops were demanding food and water from coalition forces at gunpoint. "It was an unmitigated disaster at every level," an officer said.

[LZ_Bayonet]

I originally stated:
"Not involving non-Iraqis in the decision caused some problems, but as an Iraqi and Shia leader's decision it appeared to have it's purposes."

You reply to me began with:
"Yup, it caused some problems."

Then, you questioned:
"Did the Iraqi Army and police bungle some things? Yup ... and your point is?"

Let me fix that question for you:
"Did the Iraqi Army and police bungle some things? Yup ... and your my point is?

Maybe you confused my post with a posting that followed mine, I just want to make clear that I agree with you that the "bungle" stuff is relatively unimportant given the gains you later detailed. That aside, thanks for expanding on my point, i.e. "but as an Iraqi and Shia leader's decision it appeared to have it's purposes". You explained those "purposes" better than I could have.

[Marine_Uncle]

A BS continues to spew from the Telegraph. Are the Brits that stupid to believe this crap.

[Valin]

Iraqi Army Memorial Service
http://miserabledonuts.blogspot.com/2008/04/iraqi-army-memorial-service.html
(Click above for photos)

The Iraqi Army lost some men, including a Brigadier, during the recent fighting around Basrah. Yesterday began a three day period where a memorial/rememberance would be held for a portion of the day. I was invited to attend, and was allowed, even encouraged, to photograph any part of the event.

We came to the place it was held, where banners were hung announcing the mourning.

We entered with a group of Iraqi officers and sat along the walls of the room, with more chairs in the middle.

At that point, one of the officers spoke, briefly. He was preparing the room to hear a selected passage from the Koran. Passages were playing from the loudspeakers, and some of the soldiers would also recite aloud themselves. The people in the room held their hands open and palms up, to receive the recitation. Afterward everyone greeted the newcomers and each other with “allah bil Khair” (God bless/welcome). A server came by and gave each person a glass of cool water. Then, the platter of cigarettes. The packs were arranged quite artfully in two concentric circles, a few individual cigarettes pulled out in various spots to facilitate easy extraction. I gave a polite refusal (you place your right hand over your heart)

And then the coffee. A server with two cups, Turkish coffee and if you didn’t waggle your cup side to side (Iraqi gesture for “no more, thank you”) you got a second splash of the stuff.

Iraqi tea (the bottom 20% of the glass is sugar) was then served to everyone as well. After a bit of reflection time, another group entered. Repeat all of the above, with extra “allah bil Khair” for good measure. Once the place was full groups of soldiers or NCOs and officers would go and salute or speak to the two Major Generals; the incoming commander, and the outgoing division commander.

I was the American-on-the-scene. I stayed for some time before following the British contingent and expressing my condolences to the outgoing commander, through our interpreter (my Arabic isn’t quite up to that level yet). When I also spoke to the incoming commander, the interpreter was silent. Just as I turned to look at him and find out what the problem was, the new commander replied in perfect English that on behalf of the soldiers, NCOs and officers of his division he was honored to have me here. Whoah.
We left the room as replacements for us were ready to come in.
Different than the way we do things, but not so alien as to be totally unrecognizable as to what I would have called “a visitation”.

Post script: I failed to mention that I watched the incoming commander, every so often, during the time I was there. I can only describe the look on his face as one of deep thought about his situation. I could almost feel the sober reflection radiating off him, and I shan’t ever forget that look.

________________________________________
“He was preparing the room to hear a selected passage from the Koran. Passages were playing from the loudspeakers, and some of the soldiers would also recite aloud themselves. The people in the room held their hands open and palms up, to receive the recitation. Afterward everyone greeted the newcomers and each other with “allah bil Khair” (God bless/welcome).”

Valin says: Could it be that the religious bigots of the Nuke Mecca crowd are wrong, that this is a war against Islam?

Aristotle:
“Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody’s power, that is not easy.”

[UKTory]

“The Telegraph is a blatantly Left wing publication. They’ll say ANYTHING to help the enemy.”

Wow, I guess Margeret Thatcher must have been a Communist all those years.

Seriously, you’re so far wrong it’s quite disturbing.

[navyguy]

I stand corrected... I was thinking of the INDEPENDENT. Doh!

Sorry!

[Rikstir]

“The Telegraph is a blatantly Left wing publication.”

What, the Torygraph is a left winger?

Hehehehehe...

Its not known as the TORYgraph for a reason is it?

Jeez.

[Rikstir]

“The Brits were never popular nor do they know how to be popular in the ME givened their legacy”

Another Brit hater i see! Join the club. Its called FR!

[Rikstir]

“Of course, there are US troops assisting and supervising in Basra now and not Brits.”

Really. I suppose the Brit special forces that are running all over Basra aren’t Brits at all. No doubt they are something else. Or not there at all, and its all lies.

Read this and get some knowledge.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7360875.stm

[Rikstir]

“We fired our guns and the British kept a’comin.
There wasn’t nigh as many as there was a while ago.
We fired once more and they began to runnin’
down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.”

And here number 2.

[1035rep]

The Telegraph is a blatantly Left wing publication.

My thoughts exactly.   

[Rikstir]

Ahhh...Blissful ignorance.

Maybe if you get around to reading this reply you might peruse some of the posts above and discover that....

The Telegraph is....

[<1/1,000,000th%]

The British-trained Iraqi Army's attempt to retake Basra from militiamen was an "unmitigated disaster at every level", British commanders have disclosed.

If all the British troops were killed, then these officers must have abandoned their posts during the fighting.

I call BS.

[1035rep]

I saw the other post and I still think the Telegraph is BS.

Get it? 

[longtermmemmory]

does not say much about british training.

seems the proof is in the results.

Perhaps there were other issues for the british to pull out that were not being disclose but more related to their training technique.

[Rikstir]

Whether it is crap or not is beside the point. You laid claim to the paper being a left winger!

Hehehehehe..

[1035rep]

Whether it is crap or not is beside the point.

LOL 

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Thanks...

[DGHoodini]

??? Not seeing the correlation....

[Rikstir]

Its a nice song, but what’s it got to do with the price of bacon?

[DGHoodini]

I think you may have misinterpreted my reference. It's some verse from a song about a battle in 1814, when a british invasion Force, attempted to re-establish British Law in the U.S.. Ernest and I, were on the same wavelength I believe, and he took it as I meant it:

“We fired our guns and the Mahdi kept a’comin.
There wasn’t nigh as many as there was a while ago.
We fired once more and they began to runnin’
Up the Tigris river to the City of Al Sadr."