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Polygamous-sect children ordered to stay in Texas custody (DNA Tests Ordered)
From the Associated Press ^ | 5:52 PM PDT, April 18, 2008 | Associated Press

Posted on 04/18/2008 6:30:59 PM PDT by granite

SAN ANGELO, Texas -- More than 400 children taken from a ranch run by a polygamous sect will stay in state custody and be subject to genetic testing, a judge ruled Friday. State District Judge Barbara Walther heard 21 hours of testimony over two days before ruling that the children be kept by the state. Individual hearings will be set for the children over the next several weeks. She ordered that all children and parents be given genetic testing. Child welfare officials have said they've had difficulty determining how the children and parents are related because of evasive or changing answers.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption
KEYWORDS: flds; jeffs; pedophillia; polygamy; yfzranch
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To: Awestruck

Oh really!

Better check out this investigation.

http://www.childpredators.com/


361 posted on 04/20/2008 7:24:51 AM PDT by wolfcreek (I see miles and miles of Texas....let's keep it that way.)
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To: unlearner

Just popping in to add: abortion was illegal in Nazi Germany for Aryan white nationals.


362 posted on 04/20/2008 7:29:14 AM PDT by ariamne (Proud shieldmaiden of the infidel--never forget, never forgive 9/11)
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To: SouthTexas

“In absolving the women, the mothers, of any guilt here, at minimum collusion and failure to report a crime to possibly even more criminal issues, what do you do with the boys, young men, and men that were raised in the same environment?”

I’m not trying to absolve any one of anything. I’m only pointing out that allowing these women access to their children will taint testimony. If truth is the goal, then there is no other choice but to remove the children.


363 posted on 04/20/2008 7:31:53 AM PDT by DugwayDuke (A true patriot will do anything to keep a Democrat out of the White House.)
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To: DugwayDuke

It was just a question and I included you because you noted they were “innocent witnesses”.


364 posted on 04/20/2008 7:37:10 AM PDT by SouthTexas (If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!)
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To: jabchae

“It is possible to want these children removed from this situation and at the same time yearn for a world in which CPS were held accountable for the destruction it often oversees.”

As with any governmental organization, CPS is wrought with abuse, fraud, under staffing and under budgeted but, they and their state counterparts are one of few ways to protect our youth outside of parental custody. If not them, who and how?

IMO, the state started investigating these folks as soon as the word spread of their intent to buy land in Texas. (there’s been an inside informant for 4 yrs) They undoubtedly have info they’re not releasing to the public.


365 posted on 04/20/2008 7:45:06 AM PDT by wolfcreek (I see miles and miles of Texas....let's keep it that way.)
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To: SouthTexas

“There has been no information released regarding.....”

There’s your sign! A criminal investigation involving minors (at least in Texas) will not release info about the cases. (especially ages, sexes, graphic details, etc...)

Pretty much everything about this case is media hearsay. It’s best to wait and see how this all plays out.


366 posted on 04/20/2008 7:51:17 AM PDT by wolfcreek (I see miles and miles of Texas....let's keep it that way.)
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To: marychesnutfan

God Bless you—your post is very moving. I swore I would do no more than lurk on this thread but I had to respond to you. I have also read and admired Mary Chestnut.


367 posted on 04/20/2008 7:51:25 AM PDT by ariamne (Proud shieldmaiden of the infidel--never forget, never forgive 9/11)
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To: wolfcreek
That's about what I said eh? ;)

The question as to why "all" of the children were taken still stands. There has been nothing alleged, even by the most virulent, that would endanger the younger ones and warrant separation from the mothers.

368 posted on 04/20/2008 8:03:20 AM PDT by SouthTexas (If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!)
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To: SouthTexas

Who exactly are their mothers? Care to hazard a guess.


369 posted on 04/20/2008 8:07:13 AM PDT by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: colorcountry
That's another one of those things that remain to be seen.

Reports have said they are all flipped and switched and if so, wouldn't that lend itself to more culpability?

370 posted on 04/20/2008 8:13:37 AM PDT by SouthTexas (If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!)
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To: DugwayDuke
Do you think protecting these victims of child rape from witnesses tampering is a “bit harsh”?

But the problem is not ALL the children have been abused. So if youre neighbor abused his children can the state come take your kids and separate them from you...since obviously you must have known about it and would be tampering with the "evidence".

371 posted on 04/20/2008 8:16:14 AM PDT by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: DugwayDuke
I’m not trying to absolve any one of anything. I’m only pointing out that allowing these women access to their children will taint testimony. If truth is the goal, then there is no other choice but to remove the children.

That is no guarantee of the truth. Remember the case in the 80's of the day care center where the kids were interviewed and all started saying they were abused? Ended up being the kids lied because they were rewarded for liinga bout being abused. Both parties on this want the kids to lie. The prosecutors want the kids to say abuse and parents to say no abuse--and both will reward the children for telling their side of the story.

If someone came after my children and said I couldn't speakt to them because they may be witness to a crime...I'd be shooting someone. The problem with your theory is that you are assuming all the parents are guilty. i think you need to have a court ruling before you can make that decision on a legal basis.

372 posted on 04/20/2008 8:21:24 AM PDT by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: for-q-clinton; DugwayDuke

That sort of rolls back into my question on absolving the mothers/women of any guilt. Could the state be leaning the other direction here? (that there is guilt to some degree)


373 posted on 04/20/2008 8:35:51 AM PDT by SouthTexas (If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!)
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To: SouthTexas

“the younger ones”

Eventually, they get their cycle and become available for abuse. (at least in theory)

The paper said today, after the DNA test are completed, the 4 and younger will be separated from their parents. This does goes against CPS’s original statements.

This thing is evolving, suggesting to me there’s much more to this story.


374 posted on 04/20/2008 8:46:04 AM PDT by wolfcreek (I see miles and miles of Texas....let's keep it that way.)
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To: wolfcreek
I understand your point, but the cycle wouldn't happen in the length of the trial.

Heard that report last night and there may be far more to come or it could be overreaching by the state and that's what bothers me.

Also read, don't remember where, that a federal warrant was also served. They did not elaborate, even said it was to stay sealed.

375 posted on 04/20/2008 8:53:45 AM PDT by SouthTexas (If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!)
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To: SouthTexas

You asked: “Question:
In absolving the women, the mothers, of any guilt here, at minimum collusion and failure to report a crime to possibly even more criminal issues, what do you do with the boys, young men, and men that were raised in the same environment?”

That is simple, did those boys or young men abuse a woman YET. The only persons who can answer that, if they feel safe enough and that they won’t go to hell for it, are the women. If not, than deprogram them too as best as can be done and try and hope they can maybe marry one woman and become a useful member of society.

To me it appears the older men and the “heads” of the group are the most likely guilty ones.

And sadly they won’t have to deal with the enormous and costly task of trying to clean up the mess they created. It will be hard, fraught with dangers but it’s doable and must be tried in order to save as many as possible from what was. And we don’t know, maybe it will go smoother than we know, sometimes that happens in things. All life is that way.

Heck Iraq is another example. It’s not perfect, it’s still messy and I sure as heck wouldn’t want to go there or live there but most Iraqi’s I’m sure if asked while agreeing, would say it is better than living under Saddam and his two sons and facing those tortures.

Life is hard and dangerous, we all do the best we can and try and help our fellow man if we can but NO ONE does anything or everything perfectly and lack of being able to is no excuse to not try or to do nothing.


376 posted on 04/20/2008 9:58:04 AM PDT by marychesnutfan
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To: marychesnutfan
Not trying to be argumentative here and I know I was quite blunt and even sarcastic earlier on, that's how I felt at the time.

According to your definition or line, how do you absolve the women/mothers and not those young men that were taught the same thing? Would not the women be guilty of aiding and abetting the same crimes the men are charged with?

377 posted on 04/20/2008 10:14:12 AM PDT by SouthTexas (If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!)
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To: SouthTexas

That is what this whole thing is for and about, to try and figure out who is doing what to whom. And then to try and stop it and fix things as best we can and proceed on.

That is why what is happening is happening. We can’t find out till what is occuring, occurs. This IS the process.


378 posted on 04/20/2008 10:33:43 AM PDT by marychesnutfan
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To: marychesnutfan

That’s a pretty good lariat toss Mary to connect these folks to Jews and Nazi Death Camps.

Let’s try this on for size:

If the women were brainwashed from birth to be sex slaves then what about the boys who grew up to be the men in these groups?

They had to learn that sort of stuff somewhere and were born into it.

Do you give them the same consideration?

if not why?

As for Jews in WWII, I think Jews now realize how wrong they were to think their historical negotiating skills in the nations they lived in would see them through. They learned from that and now at least in Israel they see what time it. American Jews ...self destructive as they appear to be...might be another matter.

History is replete with how some groups are more easily subjugated than others....it has a lot to do with culture and of course sheer numbers.

not that any of that has a lot to do with this in my view.

I don’t know enough about this yet but if the older women channeled 13-14 year old girls to older men at first mense cycle sexual rituals as some here claim then they too are guilty.....brainwashed or not....same as a women who keeps her kid in a home with a child abusing boyfriend


379 posted on 04/20/2008 10:36:19 AM PDT by wardaddy
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To: marychesnutfan

Like during a huge fight at school. You first stop it, then separate the kids because to stand there and ask questions won’t get you anywhere near the truth.

You separate the kids, calm them down, let them know that the truth can be spoken and they won’t be beat up later for speaking it since it will be confidential, then all the “evidence” or testimony is gathered and in this case presented before a jury, etc. etc. Then, and only then is there a trial and hopefully a guilty one or ones found. And then punishment decided separately.

We are merely folks standing on the edge of the fight, seeing things happen and hearing bits. Some see more, some less.

This is how our country works, slow, imperfect, but the best system yet devised compared to the rest of the world and history.


380 posted on 04/20/2008 10:38:42 AM PDT by marychesnutfan
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