Posted on 04/18/2008 6:30:59 PM PDT by granite
SAN ANGELO, Texas -- More than 400 children taken from a ranch run by a polygamous sect will stay in state custody and be subject to genetic testing, a judge ruled Friday. State District Judge Barbara Walther heard 21 hours of testimony over two days before ruling that the children be kept by the state. Individual hearings will be set for the children over the next several weeks. She ordered that all children and parents be given genetic testing. Child welfare officials have said they've had difficulty determining how the children and parents are related because of evasive or changing answers.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
It all goes back to answering a question that "wasn't young pregnant girls sufficient evidence" and I said no. Since then I've been accused of supporting child abuse, an fLDS supporter and even a Branch Davidian. Of which I assure you, I am none of the above.
So you mean that these people were held as proverbial hostages and couldn’t voluntarily leave and go somewhere else?
Sort of like the poor bastards who were forced at knifepoint to walk into a bar where people were smoking cigarettes or cigars. They couldn’t leave if they wanted to.
They couldn’t go where they were allowed to wait until they were 27 and marry someone they wanted to voluntarily, just like the the dummy coudn’t find the door or the non smoking restaurant?
Gubmint actually stood up for freedom of choice? I think some people here can feel their pain. :-)
I interned with child protective services here in Missouri. we got a hotline call that a mom had left her two young kids alone and that the 12 year-old boy had raped his little sister. When an emergency hotline call comes in you are required by law to investigate within 24 or 48 hours (don’t remember which). we investigated and the complaint was bogus, called in by the woman’s abusive ex-husband’s mother. if we saw any signs of sexual abuse we would have removed that girl immediately. odds are that the investigators are following the state laws and protocols.
I think a few might be seminar trolls.
Either that, or they're disappointed at losing out on a vicarious harem.
You make an excellent point!
Of course, the gubmint in question is Texas...they can’t even get their candidates for governor to quit walking around with a cigar. :-)
Are you saying that little girls who have been raised like cattle as sex slaves should be able to get up the nerve to leave?
I love Kinky Friedman.
When I run for office (not in the DPRNJ, but the red state I am moving to), I will have an unlit cigarette in my mouth at every interview. Just to make an un-PC point.
Thanks for your honest post.
I think the Texas authorities acted in a proper way.
Eric..do the cigar..but don’t appoint Willie Nelson as AG. And don’t say, right up front, that we are going to start legislation at about 11:00 p.m. .....
Such basic parallels escape the likes of ansel12, so of course they appear bizzare.
One could make the case that said posters anemic logical skills are the result of it's tagline, but I'll conjecture it's more the case of it being warped by prejudice.
Unless the police initiated the phone call, they went into the situation in good faith. If, knowing that this is a polygamous sect which practices statutory rape, they saw underage pregnant girls on the premises, an investigation would seem necessary, whether or not the catalyst proved false.
My question is why did the woman make the call? Was this a prank or the only way to get the police to investigate?
I still want to know why it took officials so long to try to resolve this problem
“Let’s let that woman have the same constitutional rights you demand for the fLDS residents, shall we?”
I don’t think anyone here is advocating her conviction without due process. Who knows, maybe a real underage caller will be identified.
What is an issue is whether this whole investigation was launched on a pretext. The truth is most likely the warrants and investigation and procedures were primarily based on presumptions about what was going on in this sect BEFORE any call was received. It appears the authorities wanted an excuse to raid a group known for advocating polygamy.
There are plenty of groups that openly preach and practice much worse but are not investigated. I’m not prepared to give the state of Texas the benefit of the doubt. This smells like a political agenda. Why do these same law makers in Austin have no problem whatsoever placing children with homosexuals and in group homes with other minors who have committed violent and sexual crimes? Why do these same law makers embrace abortion, including that by underage girls who may be being brought to Planned Parenthood by their stepdad’s who impregnated them while the mothers ignore it?
“Meanwhile, the first visit produced information for the second visit, affadavits, a search warrant with probable cause, and the removal of the children for their own safety, based on what was seen during the execution of that warrant.”
I had not heard that.
“This is at least the fourth time I’ve posted this tonight, and the sixth or seventh time I’ve posted it in the past two days. Are you playing a game?”
That seems kind of arrogant. You initiated a conversation with me. I do not have time to read every post or even every article on this subject. I did not start a conversation with you disputing your claims. What makes you think I am supposed to retrace your previous posts to get this information?
My assumptions about the phone call earlier were based on media reports not opinions of people replying to articles here. That said, I know the news media is often dishonest and sensational, so I will give the information you presented due consideration.
i posted this on another polygamy thread where i have been lambasted for having the audacity to ask questions about all of this instead of simply ooraahing...can someone please address this?:
“I’m not Mormon but I’d like to hear this explained. ok now remember, I have no connection to Mormons being an SBC Dixie man myself but I’m trying to understand all this from the perspective of folks who act like they are close to it...
Brigham Young...venerated I’d reckon ...had 55 wives....and 50 someodd kids....wives as young as 15 when he was in his 40s...his plural family homes are landmarks in Utah
Joseph Smith had 33 wives ...around a dozen of them ranged from early to late teens...Smith founded Mormonism
How does one balance the intense denunciation of polygamy today as practiced by this Mormon offshoot (or expelled sect..whatever) with the veneration of early important Mormonism founders who were doing what sure looks like the same thing?
Another two questions?
Is the idea of “sealing” as marriage what these modern day polygamists consider they are doing in their inner compound marriages?
Why was (and still is to a degree) polygamy port of Mormonism from it’s founding? (yes I know the church banned it in 1998 but they still venerate those who practiced polygamy and many polygamists out west consider themselves Mormon. “
“LEOs witnessed multiple underage pregnancies in ‘plain sight’.”
Obviously they are in plain sight when their property is being searched. Unless, of course, they hid them. It has been accused that the girl who called has been hidden. That seems unlikely if they did not have sense to hide the other underage pregnancies.
Many underage pregnancies are in plain sight at public schools. Lawmakers in Austin saw fit to raise the age of marriage (not necessarily consent) just because this group moved to Texas.
All of the minors who are pregnant can be legally married in Texas still, even after this law was enacted, if a judge gives permission, just not the parents. Or they could be “legally” married in another state.
Why aren’t they busting down the doors at Planned Parenthood, taking underage girls into custody, checking DNA evidence to see who has been abusing them, and arresting the abortionists for their complicity? Austin has had all the time in the world to take action on these things. Instead they get worse.
Why are they putting children with homosexuals?
“A judge viewed the evidence and signed a removal order for the children. Perfectly legal.”
Because a judge did it, it must be perfectly legal? Granted, it is possible the evidence justified removing children. But, on the surface of it, and based on what is publicly disclosed, I think the judge overstepped in taking ALL the children.
“Several girls said a girl named Sarah matching the description given had been seen in the compound but had now disappeared.”
Thanks for that info. That does sound like something that must be investigated.
But just imagine if this happened out in the real world where us normal folk live. Can you really say it is OK for the government to come in and take children from their homes and families within entire communities?
I know Christians here think that siding against this cult is siding with morality against the currents of immorality in our culture. It is not.
This nation is morally about where Germany was when Hitler rose to power. We should not entrust such powers to an immoral group of judges and politicians.
It may lead to internment camps, torture and mass murders by the kind of sexual deviants that worked their way into power in Germany and have throughout our political landscape as well.
Don’t think it can’t happen here.
Thanks for the post.
I would not want to be the judge deciding a response to this.
You can’t ignore such accusations.
I’ve just got to believe there is a better way to handle this than taking hundreds of children, a whole community, into custody. But I have to admit I don’t know what that might be.
Far too many seem to be ignoring the parallels, but it’s all for the children ya know?
That isn't a junior high school; that's your local mosque!
“Time will tell as all this plays out. But at this point, polygamy itself is against the law in TX, and certainly sex with a child under 16 is against the law. Since the judge did not yet throw any of this out, I will wait to see further evidence.”
You’ve got some good points.
I think 18 is the age of consent if not married and 16 is the earliest a minor can marry without a judge’s permission. But Texas probably recognizes marriages in other states and even other countries that could be under 16.
In other words, teenage girls being pregnant is not automatically evidence of a crime.
This whole thing is just an all around lose-lose situation.
You have abuse of power. You have perverts hiding behind the law. You have Christian faith being maligned. And multiple generations are being damaged. I wish I could find anything good about it.
I know a lot of people think it is good this is coming out and think things will get resolved, but I doubt it. I know of too many worse situations. If they take these children away, they will most likely be put into another horrible place.
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