Posted on 04/15/2008 8:34:19 PM PDT by blam
In direct contradiction to sola scriptura, you have reached out instead to mere Traditions of Men.
South Park?
Okay, it's good to know where you get your information.
Do you also rely on South Park for your understanding of the Virgin Mary?
Your question is synonymous to “How can you know an event occurred if you were not an eyewitness?”
If all we had were traditions and word of mouth, you'd have a point. But we have the Scriptures and we can read them and know our salvation is by Christ alone, if God gives us eyes to see.
Certainly the early church fathers understood this.
South Park accurately reported the secret Xenu papers.
South Park did not accurately report Catholic teaching on Mary.
Thanks to the Catholic Church.
...and know our salvation is by Christ alone...
If that is you choose how to interpret them, no one can stop you.
My fruits?
I would tell you of them, but I’d much rather tell you about Christ crucified. Would you like to hear of how his death turned away God’s wrath from a sinner like me?
How do you know South Park was "accurate?"
"I am saved because I was smarter than the poor slob next door."
Here's a bedtime prayer consistent with your beliefs that you can offer up tonight:
`Lord, I thank thee I am not like those poor presumptuous Calvinists.Lord, I was born with a glorious free will; I was born with power by which I can turn to thee of myself; I have improved my grace.
If everybody had done the same with their grace that I have, they might all have been saved.
Lord, I know thou dost not make us willing if we are not willing ourselves. Thou givest grace to everybody; some do not improve it, but I do.
There are many that will go to hell as much bought with the blood of Christ as I was; they had as much of the Holy Ghost given to them; they had as good a chance, and were as much blessed as I am.
It was not thy grace that made us differ; I know it did a great deal, still I turned the point; I made use of what was given me, and others did not - that is the difference between me and them.'
By verifying with other sources.
LOL
Wouldn't it be much easier and simpler and more sane and logical and clearer and more accurate to simply read the original source rather than rely on books about books on books and South Park episodes?
That's what sets Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion apart from a lot of theology books -- Calvin based every word and concept and thought and principle on the words of God.
And if you doubt that, you can read them for yourself and tell us where he strayed from Scripture. (I don't think South Park has done any shows on Calvin yet so you may be forced to actually read him.)
So again, I believe Calvin is correct because I've read the Bible and I've read the Institutes and they align perfectly with the Bible.
How do you know the "other sources" you've read are correct?
Hmmm. Did Christ want us to be confident of God's grace? Did Paul know whom he had believed?
"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" -- Philippeans 1:6
Anyone who has been given saving grace through Trinitarian faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior is most likely among the elect because that is the method God told us He employs for redeeming His family. Do you disagree with that?
"Be not afraid; only believe." -- Mark 5:36
Doesn't it occur to you as interesting that you are in agreement with two Roman Catholics on this thread while arguing against the faith of the Reformation?
Yup indeed, we can "most likely" be absolutely confidant that we are saved. ROFLOL!
Those of us with free wills can be 100% confidant. You Calvinists, AS YOU'VE STATED, don't really know if you are one of the "chosen ones".
We are justified by Christ's righteousness and not our own.
I've never said that. Individuals can be assured of their own salvation because Christ told us to believe and be saved. And if we been graced with saving faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, we can be confident in His promise.
None of us knows if anyone else is saved, but we have a pretty good idea by the fruits a person exhibits.
You continue to speak doubletalk. If you were truly predestined, pre-elected, you would not have to do anything, and that includes "believing". There would be no action/effort required on your part. NONE/ZERO. You would already be saved. Now you can get all puffed up like a peacock, because YOU BELIEVED.
Christ also said things like "For the Son of man came to seek and to save that which was lost." Of course your theology of no free will election makes this statement absurd, since "chosen/elected" men can not be "lost".
In your view, do I need to read this book before I say it is false?
Well, that's not how God has ordained His creation or His merciful salvation. All God's family will believe, and thus be saved by Christ's atonement. Saving faith in Jesus Christ is the evidence of our regeneration by the Holy Spirit; not a requirement for it. Grace is the requirement for salvation, and that is a gift from God.
"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" -- 2 Thessalonians 2:13
Christ also said things like "For the Son of man came to seek and to save that which was lost." Of course your theology of no free will election makes this statement absurd, since "chosen/elected" men can not be "lost".
Nothing absurd about it. While it may feel like we're finding Christ, it is Christ who finds us, as the Bible tells us.
"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you." -- John 15:16
Even the old hymn "Amazing Grace" has the right perspective -- "I once was lost but now am found..."
It wouldn’t hurt.
4 But I have this against thee, that thou didst leave thy first love. 5 Remember therefore whence thou art fallen, and repent and do the first works; or else I come to thee, and will move thy candlestick out of its place, except thou repent.
Clear as day, they must CHOOSE TO REPENT, or else they will not be saved. If they were elected and the "deal was sealed", THIS WARNING WOULD MAKE NO SENSE WHATSOEVER!!! Jesus is not irrational and does not make irrational statements, the way some men's doctrines are/do.
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