Posted on 04/15/2008 8:34:19 PM PDT by blam
Here is the reason I am an elder.
If you look at the letter, it is written to, and I quote, “To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of God and of Jesus our Lord.”
So, the whole letter is written to those who are believers, not to those who do not believe. Therefore, in chapter 3, Peter begins to council and console those of the faith about the last days. He talks about the scoffers who will try to destroy the faith of those who are weak. So, in verse 9, (and I should at this point tell you that you should look to the whole verse and not just take a portion of it to try and prove a major premise) it says the Lord is not slow to fullfill his promises, and that all of his children will come to him and not perish.
I would caution you, in your incredulity, that the answers are there, and even if you do not understand, be patient and ask. Please don’t assume that just because I am a Protestant and a Calvinist, that I can’t possible understand scripture. Obviously, I can and do. And apparently, better than you.
Considering the totality of Scripture, God certainly will bring all who he pleases (Ephesians 1) to faith and those who are of Essau (Malachi 1) will be judged.
Come Lord Jesus.
Your answer was:
But that would have been when God chose for me to die, so, yes.
And I responded: So you are claiming that it would have been "God's will" for you to commit suicide by ingesting a fatal dose of arsenic. Don't you find that theology a gross perversion on what the Presbyterian church teaches?
You DODGED this question. Of course I understand why because you can not answer it without exposing how flawed your stated theology is.
Care to take a stab at it, now with your claim of being "full of understanding"?
I have cured a very bad shoulder the same way and now a sore hip.
I never took HRT--just Vit E and never had a hot flash. I know that proves nothing but I'd do it the same way again.
Docs had nearly killed my sister with drugs and we resorted to nutritional therapy for her, too. Her RA is gone but she still has fibromyalgia. They're working on that--no drugs.
I can write a book. I know these people have an agenda to discredit natural therapies so people will resort to drugs which are expensive and have side effects.
There's another way they are persuing that same agenda, by socializing medicine further, in particular, by reducing or eliminating the drug co-pay charges and providing drugs under Medicare to more of us. Forcing (the customers of) insurance companies and (the tax payers to) government to pay indirectly, rather than as used, for more of the charges for drugs, increases the sales of these drugs.
The Daily Dose newsletter of Dr. Douglass for today puts it this way:
Big shock: People are more likely to get prescriptions when they're cheaper
Dear Friend,
As you know, one of the biggest issues of the upcoming election is health care. The two democratic candidates think that health care should be made more "affordable," but their solution for making it less expensive is to get the entire country on a national health care plan.
Naturally, everyone thinks that this means "free" health care. The problem is, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Instead, socialized medicine will merely make health care in this country less competitive and create a run on drugs and medical care that people often will not need.
A recent study completed by researchers at the Center for Studying Health System Change found that, for people with employer-sponsored insurance, a sizable portion of out-of-pocket expenses were a result of co-payments for prescription drugs. It also showed that when a company eliminated co-pays for important medicines (i.e., prescriptions for high cholesterol, high blood pressure, asthma, etc.) and cut the amount of the co-pay in half for other medications, "appropriate" use of the drugs went up.
According to the study's senior researcher, Dr. Mark Fendrick of the University of Michigan Medical School, "All research to this point had shown that individuals will not buy important medical services even if there's a small financial barrier of $5 or even $2; this study showed that when you remove those barriers, people started using these high- value services significantly more."
Well … no kidding. Let me get this straight: the study found that the less expensive something is, the more apt people are to buy it? This is hardly an earth-shaking discovery. In fact, it would seem the Center for Studying Health System Change spent a lot of time and money just to prove what was already a basic economic concept.
Obviously, I have problems with this research and its methodology.
No dodge involved at all. If you want to know the truth, I have been very sick with this cold/virus that is going around, missing several days of work,and in the mean time, trying to pack for a vacation to Disneyworld (Leaving tonight)and getting new clothes etc, etc, etc.
So, short but simple...
If I were to decide to eat a fatal dose of Arsnic, I would not be clinging to the hope of Jesus. No matter the circumstances, Jesus is my only hope. Death, in this case, would not be any hope whatsoever. No doubt, to be with Jesus is the ultimate joy, but to try to go there on my own would be outside God’s will. Therefore, I make this claim. NO MAN WHO COMMITS SUICIDE IS, OR EVER WAS, A CHILD OF GOD. In other words, the fruit of his spirit have finally come out. He may have been a member of a church, an officer of a church, even a Pope, but he was never a child of God.
Actually, In order to do this in full scope would take far more time than I have right now. Suffice it to say, no one who trusts in Jesus can kill himself. No one who is outside the will of God can save himself. It all hinges on God and his perfect will.
Now, you haven’t answered any of my questions. Care to try?
To say that God does not want anyone to go to hell, you have to avoid asking a few questions.
If God wants all to be saved, why do some go to hell?
Is God too weak to save them?
Is God too uncaring to save them?
Is man able to thwart God’s will?
If so, doesn’t that make man more powerful than God?
If God doesn’t want man to go to hell, why did he create hell?
If God didn’t allow for man to sin, why did he create the tree in the garden and pronounce the penalty for eating of it?
Do you really think that God is not capable of saving the entire human race?
If you think that God is capable, but choses not to, why?
Do you feel that anything you do is outside of God’s will?
The second you die, do you think that God will not know it? That he will be suprised by your arrival? “Hey, when did you get here?” (which would still be better than, ‘hey, how did you get in?’)
Bold words. I would direct you to Romans 2, the entire chapter. Read it carefully, especially the part about judging others, and get back to me. In about a week and a half... as I said, I will be at “The Happiest Place on Earth” so they say. Enjoy.
By the way, you will note that I answer all attacks with scripture, so not only are you arguing with a child of God, you are arguing with the very word of God. Choose your words carefully.
Gentlemen, if this seeker has any questions, may I direct him to you for the next week or so? I am off to Disneyworld.
Follow on questions...
Can a man go to hell even if God saved him?
Can a man end up in hell without God’s knowledge and approval?
Can a man end up in heaven without God’s knowledge and approval?
Can a man live without God’s knowledge and approval?
Can a man die without God’s knowledge and approval?
Note: if your answer to any of the above is “yes”, you have placed man above God.
The answer to all is that no one knows
The answers are in the book :>)
From what I’ve heard of this one, they excluded all studies in which there were no deaths reported. Sounds like a biased collection of studies to me, but then, I’m not a scientist.
If God wants all to be saved, why do some go to hell?
Because, he gives us a free will to choose. If we don't have a free will to either accept Him or reject Him, we are meaningless, mindless ROBOTS! Our love for Him would be meaningless! Does your computer LOVE YOU because it does what you "make it" do?
Most parents instinctly understand these things.
Oh please! Don't even try that one! It's pure nonsense and you should know that. 50 people can point to the same few verses of scripture and all try to prove that their understanding/interpretation is the "correct one" and "they" and "they" alone speak for God.
Me confused? I don’t think so.
What YOU are saying is that God has no control over the fate of man. You are saying that even IF God wanted to, God cannot save man, because MAN is in control.To you, God is a byestander, hoping that man will somehow grab the safety rope of grace, never knowing if Man will or not. You have put Man over God. Something I will not do. Me confused? No, I know where my salvation is, in the grace of my Father in Heaven. Where is your salvation?
Care to Answer any more of the questions, or do you just want to call me stupid some more?
And yet you have not given scripture, writings of the fathers, church opinions, or anything else. All you have done is call me names. So much for ANY argument you have. Call me back when you have a better argument.
Where did I ever say that? That's a blatant mischaracterization.
To you, God is a byestander, hoping that man will somehow grab the safety rope of grace, never knowing if Man will or not.
Wrong. God does try to influence our choice but HE ALLOWS US, YES US, to make it. God has allowed US to choose Him or reject Him. If God allows us to do/choose something, HOW ON EARTH IS THAT MAKING MAN OVER GOD? IT IS NOT! Boy are you confused! When you as a parent give your children a choice to do something, does that mean you have no control over them or that they are over you? Of course not and it would be kooky if you said otherwise.
Care to Answer any more of the questions,
Why, they are based on the same confused/faulty logic.
You basically just flat out lied. I gave you the verse from 2nd Peter initially. Where are all the scripture verses that you supposedly have given? Where are they? You mentioned Romans 2. That's it, so we are tied as far as providing scripture.
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