Posted on 04/12/2008 10:22:09 PM PDT by Domandred
What gets me is that they (Texas Rangers) say they had infiltrated the group and had informants inside for 4 years. How could they stand by and let young girls get raped by dirty old men and not put an immediate stop to it just to make their case?
Wouldn’t that make the Texas Rangers guilty of withholding evidence of an ongoing crime? It certainly doesn’t take 4 years to gather enough evidence of wrongdoings at the “compound”!
I think there will be many red faces, even some here at FR, when this gets all panned out. So many questions and so few answers. I’m thinking the Rangers are shifting into CYA mode?
And if you run DNA tests on everyone, you will find out who the fathers and mothers are of each child. If you know the age of the mothers and children, it isn't exactly rocket surgery to calculate how old the mothers and fathers were at the time their children were conceived.
We are on the 6th day of this episode...and as far as I can see at this hour...NOT a single arrest. If you don’t see an arrest by the tenth day...I’d say you can just about give up on the cops “catching” someone. There isn’t a single DA who will go into court without the girl telling the story.
Here are a few of the issues/problems I see in this case.
1. How does the larger society deal with the reality that allowing one man more than one wife means surplus males with no wife?
2. The foundational basis of Western society can be traced to the introduction of marriage as defined by Mosaic law. Previously, in the ancient world, sex was defined as penetrator and penetratee, and men often sought closeness with other males - wives were merely breeding stock.
Mosaic law strictly restricted sex so that it occurred only between man and wife. Homosexual sex was strictly prohibited. Both concepts were essentially new.
3. Whether the females were pregnant before Texas law allows may not be the point.
4. What if it can be determined that the parents of the female, the female in the “marriage” and the “husband” all agree to the marriage?
5. What if it is determined than their commonly held religious beliefs allow such marriage?
6. Would it not be likely, given that issues of religious freedom being a Constitutional guarantee of an Unalienable Right, that the courts would have to accept such marriages?
At what point does the society have the right to limit the expression of religion to prevent damage to society?
Assume that the role of the courts is still the balancing of Unalienable Right when such rights are in conflict. If so, then:
Does not this case come down to whether society has the right to require that a religious practice not deliberately produce a large number of males for whom there can be no wives?
In the instant case, the damage would be the production of surplus males without hope of finding a wife - THUS LEADING TO THE UNSTABLE SITUATION FOUND IN ISLAMIC SOCIETIES WHERE MORE THAN ONE WIFE IS ALLOWED?
Just wondering.
Problem is, while having a child before reaching a certain age is evidence of statutory rape, there's no evidence that any particular man is the rapist. Without that, running "DNA tests on everyone" is an unconstitutional fishing expedition.
Texas may try to do that anyway if they're feeling desperate (and they may be, by now) but it'll only be to get the courts to tell them they can't, so they'll have somebody (the ACLU, probably) to blame for the mess they seem to have gotten themselves into.
If there is probable cause for thinking a crime was committed, there just might be a warrent for running DNA tests for everyone found at the compound. Apparently many of the mothers and their children have never had their births recorded in any state in violation of state laws. There is also some doubt about which children were born to which mothers.
And the beat goes on Ping
“Yet the Kool-aid reference is straight from American popular culture. The Jonestown mass suicide would have taken place when she was very young. I find it puzzling that she was even aware of it.”
Generations of cult members living together in one of the largest cults in America knowing the number one cult phrase in America, that is based on a famous cult event of 30 years ago does not surprise me.
“Don’t drink the kool-aid” isn’t some hip hop phrase that is rarely heard outside of MTV and urban teenagers.
I imagine even the Hare Krishna’s occasionally know it.
If they haven’t, they should.
Any pregnant minor should be CLOSELY questioned. Who the daddy? If it’s not a young man within 2-3 years of her age, I say, we have problems.
“What gets me is that they (Texas Rangers) say they had infiltrated the group and had informants inside for 4 years. How could they stand by and let young girls get raped by dirty old men and not put an immediate stop to it just to make their case?”
I thought that they only had a member that was helping them, but no matter what, we do know for a fact that the activity was taking place within the cult, because their leader was convicted and is sitting in prison for leading those activities.
We don’t know how this particular raid will pan out, but we should all know and admit that the cult is guilty, the nations problem is penetrating the groups legal advantages so that we can break them up.
I say the nation because this is a multi state problem and it also includes Canada’s law enforcement.
This group is like many crime organizations, the good guys, the bad guys, and the general public all know the truth, but the challenge is in winning in the legal system.
Interesting comments. Thank you.
I believe it was discussed on another FLDS thread that the informant (per the news release of the Sheriff) gave the authorities the ‘workings’ of the cult. How the leadership worked; any lingo they had; he/she described what the various buildings were used for. This was NOT somebody inside (for four straight years) wearing a wire. The informant’s locale (state) could not be identified. It sounded like (and was mentioned to be) somebody sympathetic to the plight of those there who was ‘helping’ law enforcement as best they could, given the suspicous nature of the group.
May I add it was also mentioned that when the Rangers entered the Temple building (the one with the beds) there was evidence that documents (church records on marriages/birth/deaths?) had been shredded. So given the complicity of destroying the records; the confusion on the part of the young (which mommy is my bio mommy?) I don’t think it is a stretch that TX would get permission to ‘match’ DNA...
You may find this thread interesting.
“And the beat goes on”
For historical perspective, everyone needs to read Ann Young’s 1873 account in “Wife No 19” of her essentially forced marriage to Brigham Young. It is a carbon copy of what is going on in Texas, all the same bizarre excuses.
Here is a link to the downloads, the best I can do:
http://www.mazeministry.com/mormonism/19thwife/19thwifedownload.htm
All the Apologists here need to read this because it shows how the whole Mormon enterprise was rotten to the core from the beginning. The FLDS are just more Mormon than most people are comfortable with, but they are true Mormons.
Thanks for that link , I plan to start reading it tomorrow.
“Thanks for that link , I plan to start reading it tomorrow.”
I have some other historical links beyond that if you get interested, just let me know. But start there.
You have a VERY interesting home page...I like what you said about sex offenders! I do have one suggestion...tell us how you REALLY feel! ;^)
And the FLDS cult has me very upset. First they have been scamming welfare & taking the members paychecks & they run the boys out so the old men have the young girls. They rip families apart & it is no religion in my eyes but a cult. I don't know what TX was supposed to do...Let them go on doing this to young girls? It is a big mess & I pray that it is handled right & some good comes out of it. Maybe some of the children & young women will get out while they have the chance...
Ps I don't have enough room to say what I really really feel although I did get the basic stuff out!
;)
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