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To: SoConPubbie
The fact is that America's immigration laws are broken. They need to be revised.

It should never have been illegal for able-bodied Mexicans seeking work to come to the USA in the first place - our backwards immigration laws, created by Democrats in the 1960s, are themselves wrong. Just bad law.

The fact that illegal aliens avail themselves of government largesse is can easily be fixed by changing government programs. It's not as if there isn't already a ton of waste in these programs to begin with, apart from immigration.

The same goes for taxes - the fact that taxes are too high has nothing to do with immigration - it has to do with a Congress that never met a program it didn't like.

As far as the American public opposing amnesty is concerned. McCain should take it as a message that his stance on the issue is far too lenient.

The fact remains that deporting every illegal immigrant in this country would be an economic and human rights disaster, and our focus should be on eliminating aliens who commit violent crimes or engage in the drug trade.

The illegal aliens whose criminal activities extend to trespassing the border and buying papers in order to stay should pay a far steeper price than McCain is willing to impose, certainly.

But some kind of just punishment and clear road to legal rehabilitation needs to be found.

And neither the let 'em all in people nor the drive 'em all out people have a workable solution.

23 posted on 04/11/2008 10:37:22 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: wideawake
The fact remains that deporting every illegal immigrant in this country would be an economic and human rights disaster

"Not wanting another 50mil+ illegals forcibly rammed down our collective gullet" is not even remotely equivalent to "deport every illegal immigrant already in this country." Straw man argument.

It should never have been illegal for able-bodied Mexicans seeking work to come to the USA in the first place

It isn't "illegal for able-bodied Mexicans seeking work to come to the USA in the first place." They can apply to do so legally, just as immigrants from every single other nation on the face of the planet are required to do. Straw man argument.

27 posted on 04/11/2008 10:42:55 AM PDT by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle (McCain "conservatives" = hardcore liberals who nonetheless appreciate the occasional tax cut.)
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To: wideawake
The same goes for taxes - the fact that taxes are too high has nothing to do with immigration - it has to do with a Congress that never met a program it didn't like.

Taxes are needed to support programs, if those programs are being abused by millions of illegal aliens driving up the costs, then it does have something to do with illegal aliens.

Let me make it even more clear for you...

If we did not all illegal aliens to steal the billions that are currenting being stolen by illegal aliens out of our tax coffers we would not need as high a tax rate as we currently have.
28 posted on 04/11/2008 10:43:49 AM PDT by SoConPubbie (GOP: If you reward bad behavior all you get is more bad behavior.)
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To: wideawake
The fact remains that deporting every illegal immigrant in this country would be an economic and human rights disaster, and our focus should be on eliminating aliens who commit violent crimes or engage in the drug trade.

Quit throwing dis-ingenuous straw man arguments into the mix.

You do not have to forcibly deport anyone.

Simply make it impossible for illegal aliens to get a job or government benefits.

They will walk back across the border the same way they came.

Make it undesireable to be here as an illegal alien.

Problem Solved!
30 posted on 04/11/2008 10:45:56 AM PDT by SoConPubbie (GOP: If you reward bad behavior all you get is more bad behavior.)
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To: wideawake
As far as the American public opposing amnesty is concerned. McCain should take it as a message that his stance on the issue is far too lenient.

The problem with that sentiment, is that McAmnesty is either too stupid, or too stubborn to do the right thing.
32 posted on 04/11/2008 10:47:09 AM PDT by SoConPubbie (GOP: If you reward bad behavior all you get is more bad behavior.)
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To: wideawake
But some kind of just punishment and clear road to legal rehabilitation needs to be found.

And neither the let 'em all in people nor the drive 'em all out people have a workable solution.



We don't need to drive them out, the undesirable ones will mostly leave on their own. We have not properly motivated them to leave. We need to go after their support system (sanctuary cities) and sympathizers (like the LA Mayor) that are American Citizens in a manor that will get the attention of not only the illegals but the MSM. Here is a modest beginning...

* No Amnesty: Amnesty undermines U.S. law and policy, rewards bad behavior, and is unfair to the millions of immigrants who follow the law and are awaiting legal entry into the United States.

* Enforce Existing Federal Laws: Enforce the laws Congress has already enacted to prevent illegal aliens from unlawfully benefiting from their presence in the country including:

A. End Sanctuary Cities by cutting off discretionary federal grant funds as appropriate to any community that, by law, ordinance, executive order, or other formal policy directs its public officials not to comply with the provisions of 8 USC 1373 and 8 USC 1644, which prohibit any state or local government from restricting in any way communications with the Department of Homeland Security “regarding the immigration status, lawful or unlawful, of an alien in the United States.”

B. Deny discretionary Federal education grants as appropriate to public universities that violate federal law by offering in-state tuition rates to illegal aliens without also offering identical benefits to United States citizens, regardless of whether or not they live in the state, as required by 8 USC 1623.

C. Deny discretionary Federal grants as appropriate to states and local governments that violate federal law by offering public benefits to illegal aliens, as prohibited by 8 USC 1621(a).

* Increased Border Security: Doubling Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents handling interior enforcement, increasing the Border Patrol to at least 25,000 agents, and increasing detention space to incarcerate illegal aliens we arrest rather than letting them go with a promise to show up later for legal proceedings against them.

* Attrition through Enforcement: Reduce the number of illegal aliens through increased enforcement against unauthorized alien workers and their employers. Without illegal employment opportunities available, fewer illegal aliens will attempt to enter the country, and many of those illegally in the country now likely will return home. This course of action offers a reasonable alternative to the false choices currently proposed to deal with the 20 - 30 million or more aliens already in the U.S. illegally: either arrest and deport them all, or give them all amnesty.


51 posted on 04/11/2008 11:13:26 AM PDT by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: wideawake
But some kind of just punishment and clear road to legal rehabilitation needs to be found.

Hear, hear.

How about this? Let them hie their illegal asses back to their countries of origin, go to the very end of the line and wait until their numbers come up LEGALLY this time.

72 posted on 04/11/2008 12:41:00 PM PDT by E. Cartman (Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.)
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To: wideawake

“The fact is that America’s immigration laws are broken. They need to be revised.”

No they don’t need ‘revised’. They need enforced!


99 posted on 04/11/2008 1:26:35 PM PDT by AuntB ('If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." T. Paine)
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To: wideawake
The fact remains that deporting every illegal immigrant in this country would be an... human rights disaster

We're not wanting to execute or imprison them.

We want then to go back to their homes, families, friends, schools, Churches, jobs, et al to help make their countries great.

106 posted on 04/11/2008 1:43:28 PM PDT by RJL
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To: wideawake
The fact remains that deporting every illegal immigrant in this country would be an economic and human rights disaster

Liberals should love the idea of sending the illegals home. A few of the liberal causes:

Twenty million illegals going home would help us to greatly to reduce the dreaded urban sprawl.

Just think how happy the Gorebots would be with the CO2 reduction of twenty million less people.

Many liberals, Ted Turner for one, are very much in favor of limiting our population, sending twenty million folks back to their homes is right in line with that thinking.

111 posted on 04/11/2008 1:54:25 PM PDT by RJL
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To: wideawake
It should never have been illegal for able-bodied Mexicans seeking work to come to the USA in the first place - our backwards immigration laws, created by Democrats in the 1960s, are themselves wrong. Just bad law.

That's plain wrong. You need to read up on the old Bracero program and all the Mexicans that refused to go after working. This lead to OPERATION WETBACK

--- There is nothing as permanent as a temporary guest worker. Check out the Turks in Europe who never went home

151 posted on 04/11/2008 5:17:51 PM PDT by dennisw (Superior attitude. Superior state of mind --- Steven Segal)
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