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FAA says no way to American Airlines (Barf Alert)
NY Daily News ^ | Friday, April 11th 2008 | XANA O'NEILL and ADAM NICHOLS

Posted on 04/11/2008 4:48:54 AM PDT by Gamecock

American airlines begged the feds Thursday to let it keep its fleet aloft, saying the fastenings that need to be checked pose no safety threat.

The answer was no.

The airline has grounded 2,500 flights since Tuesday, causing chaos for passengers nationwide, while it inspects latches and clamps on wiring covers as required by the Federal Aviation Administration.

The FAA yesterday ordered the 300 Boeing MD-80 jets to remain parked while mechanics made sure wire ties were exactly 1 inch apart and clamps faced the right way.

More than 900 flights were scrapped yesterday, and the airport havoc is expected to stretch into the weekend.

"What needed doing was a long, long, long way from causing any safety concern," an airline spokesman said yesterday.

"That's why we went to the FAA and said, 'Folks, can we get the planes in the air while we inspect them, and not cancel any flights?'

"They said no. There is no court of appeals, so we had to do what they said."

The fastenings are on a plastic tube fitted to stop wires over wheel wells from chafing and short-circuiting.

Earlier inspections, which grounded 450 flights two weeks ago, had confirmed no wires had chafed - but failed to determine whether the fastenings were properly fitted.

Most of the planes checked needed the fastenings re-spaced, said American Airlines chairman Gerard Arpey.

"It's my fault," he said. "I run the company, and if there's any blame to be had, I take full responsibility."

Since March 12, 3,000 flights have been grounded by carriers - including United, Delta and American - for problems with fire-suppression systems, malfunctioning cockpit instruments and wiring.

The feds started an audit of all domestic maintenance reports after fining Southwest Airlines $10.2 million last month for flying dozens of planes without proper fuselage inspections.

At a hearing in Congress last week, whistle-blowers said the FAA had turned a blind eye to safety after building too-cozy relationships with the airlines they're supposed to police.

In the New York area yesterday, 70 flights were canceled at LaGuardia Airport and 18 at Newark. Kennedy was crippled by knock-on delays.

"The resulting chaos may have been avoidable," said Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.). "The FAA and the airlines need to come up with a plan so this rash of cancellations doesn't happen again."

At LaGuardia, American Airlines staff barred reporters from check-in desks as furious passengers fumed.

A group of refugees that arrived from Myanmar yesterday and were trying to get to Indianapolis sat bewildered, unable to speak English or understand what was happening.

New Yorker Brad Blair said, "I am furious." Blair, 31, of Gramercy Park, who was bound for Miami for his bachelor party, was trying to get on a 4 p.m. flight, five hours after his scheduled plane was canceled.

"It's my bachelor party, and they're holding us here at this damn airport," he said. "We have suffered for hours."


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aerospace; ocd; snivel; whine
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To: MortMan
Again, the devil's in the details. The essential part of this is that the cable ties must be 1-inch apart. The aircraft will not fall out of the sky if the cable ties are greater or less than 1-inch apart.

So, again, it's not a safety issue, it's a muscle flexing issue. BTW, how long have you spent working on aircraft electrical systems? I have done it for 8 years.

Making a further exception to the rule would be the result of some individual in the FAA flexing their muscles - and bypassing the plain meaning of the ruling.

If that were the case, i could agree with you, but it isn't. AA wasn't trying to bypass or circumvent the requirement, they were trying to get the FAA to work with them and allow them to conduct the inspections in a way that didn't impact their schedule to this degree. Again, this is NOT an emergrency situation. My job requires me to fly a lot and if it were an emergency, I'd be on your side. It simply isn't.

Lastly, once the inspections are completed, the issue isn't gone. AA as well as every other airline sold a ticket to provide goods or services. That ticket serves as a contract between the airline and the customer. If/when AA is sued for not keeping up its end of its obligation as the result of this silliness on the part of the FAA, who will (likely) get the judgement against them - AA or the FAA?

41 posted on 04/11/2008 10:16:32 AM PDT by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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To: MortMan
I do design approvals (TSO software). I know what you mean!

Ah yes!

I understand your mindset much better now as to the importance of inhering to approved data! : D

I just got back from around your area early this AM. Left St. Louis monsoons and was greeted by snow and slush runways in MSP.

42 posted on 04/11/2008 10:17:58 AM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: ASOC
The FAA was **seriously embarrassed** by letting SW sluf on exterior crack inspections - they (FAA) were accused of being too cozy...

I think you nailed it!!

43 posted on 04/11/2008 10:18:48 AM PDT by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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To: DustyMoment; MortMan
The aircraft will not fall out of the sky if the cable ties are greater or less than 1-inch apart.

Prove that to be true and take personal responsibility for it then.

44 posted on 04/11/2008 10:20:35 AM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: Smokin' Joe
Exactly 1 inch... is that center to center, or exactly one inch between them?

You couldn't speak up sooner, could you!?!

45 posted on 04/11/2008 10:22:09 AM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: ASOC
Those who would give up a little safety for convenience may die in a flaming ball of metal and jet fuel.

I'll wait while they grease the jackscrew too.....

46 posted on 04/11/2008 10:24:58 AM PDT by Species8472 (People who live by the sword are usually shot to death)
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To: DustyMoment
2111USMC was inconvenienced by this.

I don't mind that my flight was 5 hours late. I don't even mind that they dumped me off at a closed airport this morning at 1:00 AM. What p!sses me off to no end, however, is my luggage not arriving with me.

Attention all airlines: People like to fly with their luggage!

47 posted on 04/11/2008 10:41:22 AM PDT by 2111USMC
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To: Species8472
Correct.

The FAA should have enforced the rules all along... But they did not, and we have this mess.

I blame the FAA as much as the airlines.

BTW, what airlines have all of their maintenance done in Guatemala? Talk about your warm fuzzy feelings.....

48 posted on 04/11/2008 10:49:01 AM PDT by ASOC (Training Storungen werden auf Papier notiert. Taktische Storungen werden im Stein geatzt. Gen Rommel)
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To: DustyMoment
AA wasn't trying to bypass or circumvent the requirement, they were trying to get the FAA to work with them and allow them to conduct the inspections in a way that didn't impact their schedule to this degree.

They were given 18 months starting in 2006. They failed to comply. How does this make it a problem on the side of the FAA?

49 posted on 04/11/2008 10:53:43 AM PDT by MortMan (Those who stand for nothing fall for anything. - Alexander Hamilton)
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To: Abathar

Words mean something, 1 “ means 1” not 1.25” but 1”.

Some FAA Inspector having a bad day make a big deal of a matter that should have been addressed when it was due.

Both the airline and more important the FAA are to blame.

But who suffers? Not the FAA for their part, but the airline for their lack of perfroming the inspections as required, and the public who has no voice at all in this closter fu**.

Will the FAA get fined for not performing their job as required, yea the day after hel* freezes over.


50 posted on 04/11/2008 10:55:21 AM PDT by chiefqc
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To: EGPWS
Prove that to be true and take personal responsibility for it then.Done and done.
51 posted on 04/11/2008 11:06:13 AM PDT by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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To: Doohickey
Did you ever tie all of the US Navy's destroyers to the dock NO MATTER WHAT, NOW!, because you found the wire ties were 1.2 inches apart instead of 1 inch apart, on one of 10,000 wire bundles on the ship?
52 posted on 04/11/2008 11:14:29 AM PDT by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
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To: MortMan
They failed to comply. How does this make it a problem on the side of the FAA?

Granted, they were probably lax. The issue is still NOT an emergency situation requiring the grounding of AA's entire MD-80 fleet. Cabling problems rarely contribute to airplanes falling out of the sky.

Once the issue was discovered by/at AA, an agreement to work with the FAA to comply with the cabling tie requirement at the next maintenance cycle would have been acceptable under most circumstances. As ASOC noted, the FAA probably cozied up to SWA and let them circumvent too many inspections. In order to regain their credibility, they needed to come down hard on the next target - AA.

So, somebody had to take the blame for the complacency at the FAA. If the order was issued in 2006, as you noted, why is it AA's fault that it wasn't done before now? The ball is still in the FAA's court because they have the responsibility of spot checking to ensure that the inpections are being properly performed. Evidently, there are some FAA inspectors who were "pencil-whipping" the paperwork instead of doing what we pay them for.

53 posted on 04/11/2008 11:17:22 AM PDT by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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To: Gamecock

Remember when the speed limit was 55 and you would get these events where people would create multiple car moving 55 mph roadblocks to demonstrate the stupidity of the whole thing?

I think that may be what happened here: Let’s all follow the precise letter of the law and see what happens.

AA could fold.


54 posted on 04/11/2008 11:18:56 AM PDT by RobRoy (This is comical)
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To: Doohickey
Correction to 52: did you ever order all of a class of the US Navy's submarines tied to the dock, NOW, while the wire tie spacing was changed on one of the boats’ 10,000 wire bundles? No subs on patrol until we remeasure and respace the dreaded wire ties!

No? Really?

Yet you so casually are prepared to bankrupt one of our major airlines.

55 posted on 04/11/2008 11:20:15 AM PDT by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
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To: DustyMoment
The ball is still in the FAA's court because they have the responsibility of spot checking to ensure that the inpections are being properly performed. Evidently, there are some FAA inspectors who were "pencil-whipping" the paperwork instead of doing what we pay them for.

FAA designated inspectors are not necessarily FAA emplyees. In many cases, they work for the airline, aircraft manufacturer, or maintenance contractor.

It is the applicant's (read: airline's) responsibility to ensure that their inspections conform to the required standards. This is akin to blaming the test monitor because the student failed to pass the test.

At any rate, we disagree. If you'd like to continue the discussion, I'd be happy to, although I doubt either of us will sway the other. :-)

56 posted on 04/11/2008 11:32:15 AM PDT by MortMan (Those who stand for nothing fall for anything. - Alexander Hamilton)
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To: DustyMoment
Done and done.

Well then, this whole scenario has been created because of a headline from The Onion?

Me thinks that if you have taken responsibility and have approved data which shows that this situation is safe and you have signed off on it with credentials, "proving" that it isn't an issue, that makes it an irrelevant issue then.

It's YOU who will be taking responsibility for any mishaps and possibly deaths that may come about because of misjudgment with safety of air travel.

You must be at least an accredited DAR, DER, and/or PMI then.

57 posted on 04/11/2008 11:49:46 AM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: Travis McGee; Doohickey
Yet you so casually are prepared to bankrupt one of our major airlines.

Doohickey, CEO, American Airlines...

The buck stops at Doohickey. /s

58 posted on 04/11/2008 11:55:34 AM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: Travis McGee

Actually, yes, I can think at least two instance where that very thing happened.


59 posted on 04/11/2008 11:59:19 AM PDT by Doohickey ("We cannot insure victory, but we can deserve it" - John Adams)
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To: MortMan
FAA designated inspectors are not necessarily FAA empl[o]yees.

Most are not, however they are approved via proxy to do the work of the FAA.

The FAA still is responsible for their approval of them thus their actions too.

I know, you already know this MortMan. ; )

60 posted on 04/11/2008 12:00:52 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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