Officials Tell How Sect in West Texas Was Raided

The New York Times ^ | April 11, 2008 | GRETEL C. KOVACH and KIRK JOHNSON

[najida]

Separation of church and state goes both ways. You can’t hide abuse behind the shield of religion or break the law of the land and expect protection under religious rights.

[najida]

Why is it when a relgion turns evil, it becomes a old man’s wet dream?

[Drew68]

Behaving as they do, hiding it behind a “religion” doesn’t strike me as “religious freedom.”

Exactly. This was nothing more than a pedophile ring. Their "religion" validated the practice of having sex with underage girls. Sounds like a great religion --if you're a pedophile!

[HamiltonJay]

Of course there will be, but also keep in mind.. in spite of everyone being “suspicious” of what was going on, they could not act until they had probably cause... which took years for them to finally have enough to get that warrant.

[Pebcak]

Has anyone ever mentioned an affidavit by a medical professional? No they haven't and they won't --100% protected.

Do they have to tell us what they have? No they don't, they have to tell the Judge.

Can you be reasonably sure the phone call to the domestic violence hot line wasn't taped?

Re: The wrong name on the warrant. Well... they're all giving false names aren't they? Does the minor child have the burden of knowing the name of a false-name-giving-false husband? No.

I think Doran is like an Airdale dog. He's a lot smarter than he looks.

[Gondring]

Not to hijack the thread, but how long before the West finally wakes up and decides that this applies to the Mohammedans, as well?

See post #1.

[Tennessee Nana]

BTTT

[Gondring]

You’re welcome! :-)

[1COUNTER-MORTER-68]

bttt

[Gondring]

To those who object to this raid, what would you have law enforcement do? Nothing? What would have to happen before a raid such as this is justified?

I neither "object to the raid" nor agree with it. I don't have all the information necessary to make that decision at this point.

However, from the article...

Sheriff Doran said he and other authorities were aware that the group had practiced polygamy and that some members had been convicted of “marrying” under-age girls in Utah and Arizona.

The sheriff said he was never able to see evidence of those activities on his visits.

[swampdweller]

There is such a fine line here. On one hand, do you want the state to just start breaking down church doors (or any doors) with no evidence? On the other hand, do we want to ignore signs that there is child rape going in the name of religion? You gotta protect innocent little kids, but at the same time, government will run wild with their power against any religious organization it sees fit.

It's tough, but I really would have to come down on the side of these poor little girls that 50 year old perverted men impregnating. It is morally reprehensible.

[Gondring]

There is such a fine line here. On one hand, do you want the state to just start breaking down church doors (or any doors) with no evidence? On the other hand, do we want to ignore signs that there is child rape going in the name of religion? You gotta protect innocent little kids, but at the same time, government will run wild with their power against any religious organization it sees fit.

Agreed. That's why it is essential that the electorate remain informed and engaged. We can't maintain protection against a swing to either side unless we are vigilant.

Of course, this is why I now fear for our republic.

It's tough, but I really would have to come down on the side of these poor little girls that 50 year old perverted men impregnating. It is morally reprehensible.

This should be a no-brainer. It's disturbing that we have to have any doubt that the sheriff/judge took appropriate care before issuing an appropriate warrant, but experience with overzealous government means that we have to always be wary.

[Apogee]

“Agreed. That’s why it is essential that the electorate remain informed and engaged. We can’t maintain protection against a swing to either side unless we are vigilant.”

This is why I am concerned over reporting that the public, and even mothers, were not allowed to get anywhere near all of this. If the authorities are aboveboard, they should be able to find a way to allow scrutiny of their actions while maintaining security needs.

I am not sure but that a thousand citizens watching might have led to a different outcome in Waco, or with Terri Schiavo. If the authorities feel they can not act safely in such a public eye, they should find actions that will work better.

This is not to condone any alleged actions of these groups, but to simply say that I want my government to do its best to seek and apply the most peaceful solutions to problems (e.g., arresting an individual on a shopping trip and foregoing the need for a raid altogether), and walk very carefully, because we are watching and will hold them accountable, immediately, if necessary to save lives of citizens. Of course, this is a pipe dream... anyone actually trying to do such a thing would probably be in violation of RICO laws and anti-terroroism statutes, interfering...
~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080414/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat
From AP today, it seems that a judge has ordered the cell phones of several of the mothers confiscated:
“lawyers said the phones should be confiscated “to prevent improper communication, tampering with witnesses and to ensure no outside inhibitors to the attorney-client relationship.””
All for their own good, I see. This disturbs me. If they are not arrested, what is the difference between cell phones and other communication. Will this become common practice?