Posted on 04/10/2008 8:06:37 AM PDT by woollyone
MIAMI -- Officers from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives barged into a South Florida home Wednesday only to discover they had the wrong address.
The ATF agents were supposed to conduct a raid at a home in the 2600 block of Northwest 49th Terrace in northwest Miami-Dade County, but they were off by one block. They entered a house on Northwest 49th Street instead.
A mother and her 2-year-old boy were among the innocent people inside the home when the agents came in
Nobody here is arguing that this was a good thing. Or that the cops involved should not be disciplined for stupidity. It was a mistake. And they need to be responsible for their mistakes.
What I'm arguing against is the attitude by many on this thread that cops should put their guns away and politely ask if the meth heads would like to come to jail.
Twenty years ago, I hung with bad guys. I'm not proud of it. But the folks on this thread have lead a sheltered life in terms of their knowledge of what goes on in bad-guy land. The bad guys really are nuts and they really do have lots of guns and they actually regard killing a cop as a mark of honor.
I've been in the room when a no-knock search happens. It was sudden and very professional. Noone got hurt (including me) because the force was so sudden and so overwhelming that noone in the room had time to reach for their gun. (And there were guns all over the room for someone to grab and be stupid with.) You have no idea how many guns can be pointed at you from a single doorway all at once.
"Knock knock, it's the police" is not-unlikely to result in a shotgun blast thru the door where the knock came from. Had that happened when I was in the room, you suddenly have an armed standoff created by one coked-up or methed-up jerk who panics. So no-knocks handled properly probably save a lot of lives.
Gotta pull the BS flag on your comments.
Your brother is a paranoid and needs therapy and a new job IF that is how he truly feels/thinks/reacts..
HE SERVES US, remember? The government of the people, for the people and by the people?
Yes, every citizen deserves due process of the law, our rights are more important than your bro’s feelings, that aspect came with the badge. If a BG executes a lethal threat, then by all means LEOs (and citizens) have a right, responibility and duty to smoke them, so don’t get me wrong.
True, there are bad guys out there, but 99.998% of us are not, therefore, tread lightly!
Show me stats of incidents of RPGs being toted/used by the bad guys in any quatity. I truly doubt your veracity. This is not an epidemic, nor even a factoid. Thankfully, we are stopping most illegal weapons from entering this country (certainly, small scale illegal import/export takes place-guns do get into the wrong hands- methnks the DEA/FBI and ICE lost most of them...).
I will assume, since I am a law adiding citizen, that anyone breaking down my door is a home invasion in progress and will react appropriately (dial 911, lock myself in the bathroom etc).
Molon Labe
We all are panty-waists, innocent lambs etc.. We’ll defer to your past shady experiences and take that as gospel.
Well, just let’s insure they “NO KNOCK” at the right address, or better yet, surveille the crap out the situation and take them out on a lonely street in a car where kids etc are not likley to be in the beaten zone.
If the Army acted (in combat) like the AFT, we’d have been drummed out existence long ago.
My freedom is more important than “security*” (*provided by government).
MolonLabe
Some police forces are becoming so militarized
I should have said when their paychecks come from DOD.
Ah, gotcha
Admit it -- you used hyperbole.
As others have asked: Document two (or, even one) case of RPG use in the U.S.
(FYI, I have -- and use -- a TXCHL -- and my own range...)
Didn't they order that custom-engraved on some knives recently?
You have a tendency to exaggerate. Some of us who are armed to the teeth really are the good guys, but; have not yet begun to shoot back.
Semper Fi
An Old Man,p>
If a government agent breaks into a dwelling at 123 E. Fifth Street, without a warrant authorizing him to do break into 123 E. Fifth Street, and in the absence of obvious exigent circumstances that would justify such a break-in, why should he not be regarded and prosecuted as a robber? Even if he has in his possession a warrant for 125 E. Fifth Street or 123 E. Sixth Street, such a warrant in no way authorizes him to enter 123 E. Fifth Street.
I've never heard of a cop being prosecuted as a robber under such circumstances, but I see no reason one shouldn't be.
Last I recall, taxi drivers were at greater risk of being shot than cops. Yes, some cops do get shot, especially in situations where crooks might expect to escape (e.g. a lone cop who happens upon some criminals). How often are cops shot while trying to serve a warrant peacefully?
They've been known to that. Although that tends to be an FBI HRT tactic. The "flash-bangs" often "inadvertently" start fires, which then burn the place to the ground.
BATF agents, and later the FBI, did just that at Waco. The BATFE agents did it as part of their initial "warrant service" at Waco.
Leatherman type tools, not knives.
Bastids.
No intent to rob and no actually robbery. Breaking and entering, and if they so much as touch an occupant then felonious assault are possible charges. Then at the civil trial, mental anguish.
Or JATFFBIFU son of JANFU.
I thoguth that entering a dwelling with the purpose of attacking the occupants therein was classified as home invasion robbery, though I suppose some states might call it aggravated burglary or somesuch. Though you're right that if they actually encounter anyone, that would add in crimes of aggravated assault and/or aggravated battery. Perhaps most important, though: if anyone is killed, felony murder. A cop who wants to avoid a murder rap from a no-knock raid should be required to take personal responsibility for checking that the warrant matches the address. Anyone not willing to take such responsibility has no business conducting such raids.
Methinks you are mis-reading my posting. I am saying that the cops were grossly in the wrong, and simply protecting their hides is NOT sufficient reason for "dynamic entry" type legal home invasions.
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