Posted on 04/06/2008 5:27:22 AM PDT by SkyPilot
Local and state officials entered the temple of a secretive polygamist sect late Saturday, said lawmen blockading the road to the YFZ Ranch near Eldorado.
The action comes hours after local prosecutors said officials were preparing for the worst because a group of FLDS members were resisting efforts to search the structure.
The Texas Department of Public Safety trooper and Schleicher County sheriff’s deputy confirmed that officials have entered the temple but said they had no word on whether anything occurred in the effort.
The incursion into the temple caps the three-day saga of the state’s Child Protective Services agency removing at least 183 women and children from the YFZ Ranch since Friday afternoon. Eighteen girls have been placed in state custody since a 16-year-old told authorities she was married to a 50-year-old man and had given birth to his child.
Saturday evening, ambulances were brought in, said Allison Palmer, who as first assistant 51st District attorney, would prosecute any felony crimes uncovered as part of the investigation inside the compound.
“In preparing for entry to the temple, law enforcement is preparing for the worst,” Palmer said Saturday evening. They want to have “medical personnel on hand in case this were to go in a way that no one wants.”
Apparently as a result of action Saturday night at the ranch, about 10:15 p.m. Saturday, a Schleicher County school bus unloaded another group of at least a dozen more women and children from the compound.
Although members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or FLDS, have provided varying degrees of cooperation to the sheriff’s deputies and Texas Rangers searching the compound, all cooperation stopped once authorities tried to search the gleaming white temple that towers over the West Texas scrub, Palmer said.
“There may be those who would oppose (entry) by placing themselves between law enforcement and the place of worship,” Palmer said Saturday afternoon. “If an agreement cannot be reached … law enforcement will have to — as gently and peaceably as possible — make entry into that place.”
Sect members consider the temple, dedicated by then-leader of the sect Warren Jeffs in January 2005 and finished many months later, off-limits to those who are not FLDS members, said Palmer, who prosecutes felony cases in Schleicher County.
Palmer said she didn’t know the size or makeup of the group inside the temple.
The earlier refusal to provide access was even more disconcerting because CPS investigators have yet to identify the 16-year-old girl or her roughly 8-month-old baby among the dozens removed from the compound, Palmer said.
“Anytime someone says, ‘Don’t look here,’” she said, “it makes you concerned that’s exactly where you need to look.”
The girl told authorities in two separate phone calls a day apart that she was married to a 50-year-old man, Dale Barlow, who had fathered her child, Palmer said.
The joint raid included the Texas Rangers, CPS, Schleicher County and Tom Green County sheriff’s deputies and game wardens from the Texas Department of Parks and Wildlife.
Although CPS and Department of Public Safety officials have described the compound’s residents as cooperative, Palmer disagreed.
“Things have been a little tense, a little volatile,” she said.
Authorities removed 52 children Friday afternoon and 131 women and children overnight Friday. About 40 of the children are boys, said CPS spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner.
No further children have been taken into state custody since Friday, when 18 girls were judged to have been abused or be at imminent risk for abuse. CPS has found foster homes for the girls, Meisner said, and will place them after concluding its investigation.
Meisner declined to comment on the fate of the 119 other children and said authorities were still searching the ranch for others Saturday evening.
“They’re in the process of looking,” she said. “They’re literally about halfway through.”
“I only wanted to point out the FLDS is not the LDS anymore than the “Westboro Baptist Church” are mainstream Baptists.”
That is silly, Westboro is only an old man and 70 to 100 of his actual family members, it isn’t growing, it isn’t creating anything, it isn’t going anywhere, it is nothing and has no future and is no threat.
The Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints of Jesus Christ on the other hand, are the real thing, powerful, large, international, it has built vast financial wealth, it has roots in a larger even more powerful cult and it is a sect in the growing Latter Day Saint Movement.
Just reading this thread makes it clear that the fLDS is still a part of a larger movement, if it was 90 people off on their own little nut island that weren’t hurting people then we could compare them to a Westboro.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter_Day_Saints
“Now for my proposition; it is more particularly for my sisters, as it is frequently happening that women say they are UNHAPPY. Men will say, 'My wife, though a most excellent woman, has NOT SEEN A HAPPY DAY SINCE I TOOK MY SECOND WIFE,' 'No, NOT A HAPPY DAY FOR A YEAR,' says one; and another HAS NOT SEEN AHAPPY DAY FOR FIVE YEARS. It is said that women are tied down and abused: that they are misused and have not the liberty they ought to have; that many of them ARE WADING THROUGH A PERFECT FLOOD OF TEARS,...
“I wish my own women to understand that what I am going to say is for them as well as others, and I want those who are here to tell their sisters, yes, all the women of this community, and then write it back to the States, and do as you please with it. I am going to give you from this time to the 6th day of October next, for reflection, that you may determine whether you wish to stay with your husbands or not, and then I am going TO SET EVERY WOMAN AT LIBERTY and say to them, Now go your way, MY WOMEN WITH THE REST, go your way. AND MY WIVES have go to do one of two things; either round up their shoulders to endure the afflictions of this world, and live their religion, OR THEY MAY LEAVE, for I will not have them about me. I will go into heaven alone, rather than have SCRATCHING AND FIGHTING AROUND ME. I WILL SET ALL AT LIBERTY. 'WHAT, FIRST WIFE TOO?' YES, I WILL LIBERATE YOU ALL....
“I wish my women, and brother Kimball's and brother Grant's to leave, and every woman in this Territory, or else say in their hearts that they will embrace the Gospel —the whole of it....say to your wives, 'Take all that I have and be set at liberty; but if you stay with me you shall comply with the law of God, and that too WITHOUT ANY MURMURING AND WHINING. You must fulfil the law of God in every respect, and round up your shoulders to WALK UP TO THE MARK WITHOUT ANY GRUNTING.' “Now recollect that two weeks from to morrow I am going to set you at liberty. But the first wife will say, 'It is hard, for I have lived with my husband twenty years, or thirty, and have raised a family of children for him, and it is a great trial to me for him to have more women;' then I say IT IS TIME THAT YOU GAVE HIM UP TO OTHER WOMEN WHO WILL BEAR CHILDREN. If my wife had borne me all the children that she ever would bare, the celestial law would teach me TO TAKE YOUNG WOMEN that would have children....
“SISTERS, I AM NOT JOKING, I do not throw out my proposition to banter your feelings, to see whether you will leave your husbands, all or any of you. BUT I KNOW THAT THERE IS NO CESSATION TO THE EVERLASTING WHINING OF MANY OF THE WOMEN IN THIS TERRITORY; I am satisfied that this is the case. And if the women will turn from the commandments of God and continue to despise the order of heaven, I will pray that the curse of the Almighty may be close to their heals, and that it may be following them all the day long....
“Prepare yourselves for two weeks from to morrow; and I will tell you now, that if you will tarry with your husbands, after I HAVE SET YOU FREE, YOU MUST BOW DOWN TO IT, and SUBMIT yourselves to the CELESTIAL LAW. You may go where you please, after two weeks from to-morrow; but, remember, that I WILL NOT HEAR ANY MORE OF THIS WHINING.” (Sermon by Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4., pp. 55-57; also printed in Deseret News, Vol. 6, pp. 235-236)
Where do you think the term "Protest - ant" came from? (I think Protestants these days don't "protest" enough)
Yes I am still thankful that the Lord has restored many of the Plain and Precious Truths.
I see, rather than answer any of my questions, you just pushed it into M.R.A.O.--Mormon Robotic Automatic Overdrive--by falling back on your testimony by reitering this. (All...in case you haven't noticed, it's S.O.P.--standard operating procedure--that when a Mormon can't or won't address your question(s) or when they become imbalanced away from their emotional foundation, they just re-shift & re-utter their common Sunday testimony line. Since LDS emphasize education & learning more than other cults, their "brainwashing quota" is less than other cults...but the most effective "brainwashing" tool they have is the layered testimonies @ meetin' time...repeat something over & over enough, well, it must be "true").
Resty, you really need to answer Metmom's question to you in #1604 & my questions from my last post rather than just falling back on a testimonial line.
You took the time to chide MHGinTN for allegedly not responding to a query from p-marlowe. So be consistent: Answer the questions. You started the convo in bringing it up to me; you made a claim...now you need to back it up.
FWIW the "marriage" between Abraham and Hagar was rather similar to the various plural marriages in the LDS Church. While the Marriage to Sarah was recognized as valid, the marriage to Hagar has not been widely accepted as valid.
The fact of the matter is that there were no legal marriage rules at the time. I would venture to say that if you were living with a woman and had a child with her, then you were married to her. For many years in this nation, that was the law. Modern statutes have eliminated the common law marriage. I frankly think that the elimination of common law marriage was a huge mistake. It has created a nation of bastard children.
It's stunning to see the kind of frenzy that has led to the following kind of posts in defense of the rotten fruit of polygamy that is borne on the tree that has grown from the roots of Joseph Smith's lies.
There is an old saying, "Hate the sin but love the sinner". This has now been corrupted to read, "Hate the sinner but love the polygamy sin."
I posted THIS: I said why I thought that Plural marriage was a beautiful thing when done under the blessing of Heavenly Father
Posted by a FReeper.
Which led to the following:
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You distroting liar this has nothing to do with what I said and you know it “VIPER COWARD” who hide behind the screen!
THIS is the original post:
greyfoxx39 this is what is annoying you and many others like to speak for us or put words in our mouths.
I have said many times that plural marriage in many ways was a beautiful things.
Because of the caliber of souls who have entered the earth.
Personally I understood Plural marriage would not be with drawn until all of God purpose was completed.
These two ordinance plural marriage and the priesthood being open to all worthy males are most likely the two most dificult and misunderstood manifesto.
Many non members like to blame the LDS as though they had the say, when it was the Lord call and only the Lord knew when mission was completed.
I fine when one is sincere and study the scriptures as well as ponder that many times in the mind's eye will come pure understanding not only that but appreciation in thing work in the scheme of things.
God knows all our hearts and minds and when we as a people are ready to take on more of what he has in store for us.
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From these posts, in my opinion it is evident how the mind set of the FLDS cultists evolved.
"I confess that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture. If a man wishes to marry more than one wife he should be asked whether he is satisfied in his conscience that he may do so in accordance with the word of God. In such a case the civil authority has nothing to do in the matter." (De Wette II, 459, ibid., pp. 329-330.)
BTW, resty, did you understand the most excellent explanation given by our new member?... I didn't think so.
So it doesn't matter...
/sarc
There you go again FOX I know none of your hearts and minds only what you display here especially when you twist and lie about what someone said to fit your own agenda!
Have your disagreements but there is no need to rearrange my words so you can undermind or mock!
You simply choose to ignore it.
BTW, have you ever found the evidence that Joseph Smith married those 14 year old girls because they were widows with children?
I told you I would leave FR forever if you provided that evidence.
I am still here........
That's fine with me - as I expect that from you. You also believe that Golden Plates were dug up in Cumorah Hill near Palmyra, New York that were buried some 1400 years earlier by the man named Mormon, and that Joe also dug up a gigantic pair of spectacles which he called "the Urim and Thummim" that allowed him to translate the Golden Plates from "Reformed Egyptian" to the BOM. You believe that. You also believe BOM claims such as elephants in the Western Hemisphere and advanced metal producing capabilities in America before 400 A.D.
You also believe that Smiths 27 "wives" and Young's 17 "wives" were a good thing.
Fortunately, the final determination of what God says, what truth is, and what God judges isn't up to you.
If I were you, I would be taking a hard, long look at the life you raised in and that you live now.
Are you 100% sure you are in God's grace? Is what your LDS church teaches true?
Remember, someday the now open door of Grace will close shut. I pray you do not find yourself on the wrong side of it.
At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep. 6"At midnight the cry rang out: 'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!' 7"Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.' 9" 'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.' 10"But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut. 11"Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!' 12"But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I don't know you.' 13"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
Matthew 25: 1-13
Get real many here can not or don’t want to seperate apples from oranges!
All you can do MHGinTN is ridicule when you are limited in your response!
That is not the Christian way either!
I am not angry about the polygamy, if a religion wants to practice polygamy as part of their belief I have no issue with that- as long as it takes place ONLY between consenting ADULTS. This issue is not really about polygamy it is about child abuse, physical abuse, and other forms of abuse committed against women and children.
Would many of you be as horrified if the wives were all of legal age when they were “married” to the men? I imagine a few of you would be- but I think this thread would have centered more on whether or not the female was beat by the man than the polygamy part.
Maybe I am different, I could never be involved in a relationship that involved polygamy- but I believe in live and let live. To me the polygamy is not where this group really crossed the line, it is the way they treat the women and children. Child sexual abuse is the key issue here, along with the man beating the young girl. I could really care less how many wives or husbands one chooses to have and am not sure the law should care either. The dirty old men “marrying” the young girls is the horrific part and for that they should be castrated.
Disingeneous hypricracy on the part of the mormon leadership. Joey and Brig were well into muliple wives beginning the 1830s, that is too well documented to deny as you are trying to do (as well as the lame Ency of Mormonism tries to do). Even pro-LDS sites have to admit that
http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/polyandry.pdf
Excommunication was a common tool of joey's to dispose of oppostion. Oliver Cowdrey was excommunicated in part after voicing opposition to Joey's polygamy. I'm sure that if one were to examine the broader context of those who were excommunicated, one would find that they had some how crossed joey or his cabal in some fashion.
In fact, even known Anti Mormon “exposer” John C. Bennett, who started the Nauvoo Expositor, was excommunicated by Joseph for his serial infidelities and his perverted practices about the principle.
First off, Bennett left Nauvoo and started his attacks on joey's character elsewhere. It was William Law (a member of the 1st Presidency) and other mormons who were concerned about joey's excesses that started the Expositor - get your history right at least.
One more, this by Fawn Brodie, an Anti Mormon, a critical biographer of Joseph Smith and a recognized expert on Smith, admitted that polygamy in Joseph’s mind was not about anything other than restoring the Biblical practice and completing a “restoration of all things.”
Shame on you 7, typical 'poisoining the well'. First, Brodie was a mormon, and was excommunicated because her book - "No Man Knows My History" - published the truth about Joey's polygamy and lies that the mormon heirarchy wanted to be kept under the rug. Fact is, her statements and observations have been found to be supported over and over again. Her history of Thomas Jefferson is an example of the fine work that she has done. NO, she is only an ANTI because her work shined the light on the cockroaches. Other mormons recently (within past 10-15 years) have also been excommunicated because they discovered that mormonism has been far less than honest with their facts and history and when they spoke out - the cabal followed joey's example.
Many of you have taken it upon yourselves to be Lawyer, Judge and executioner of Joseph Smith. That is your right, but it is also my right to proclaim that He was a prophet of God, and restored the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
You better believe it. If it wasn't for the evil that joey inflicted on this country, those 11, 12, 13, 14 and on up year old girls would not be raped and abused by those who followed the prophet. Look into those faces 7, those are the fruits of you prophet.
My eyes....my eyes... aaaargh
The actually testimonial history of the so called ‘translating of gold plates’ was done with Joe’s treasure divination peepstone, according to the scribe ol’ Joe used. Even many mormons have not been told the truth of that one! One of the infamous apologists gracing us so often with his vast knowledge had to learn that from discussions at FR.
His answers are evolving don’tchaknow.
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