Posted on 03/30/2008 6:11:12 AM PDT by Haddit
“You mention alcohol and murder rates. Are you saying that the murder rate has climbed every year since 1970 (the Controlled Substances Act)? From your graph, the murder rate climbed until 1970, then leveled off.
So, I don't get it. What's your point?”
------------------------------------------------ It appears that you are positing a straw man: The drug war was well underway by 1970.
“In December of 1964, having been ratified by 40 countries, the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs 1961 went into effect restricting narcotic drug use to medical and scientific purposes. It also internationally banned narcotic drug trade outside of government monopolies.[8] History was about to repeat itself. From 1964 to 1970 in the United States, the number of state prisoners incarcerated for drug offenses more than doubled from 3,079 to 6,596 (it was 90,000 in 1989)[9], and the new concentration on enforcing victimless crimes caused the homicide rate to skyrocket. Between 1964 and 1970 the homicide rate doubled from 5 per 100,000 to 10 per 100,000, where it has remained, with minor fluctuations, until today.[2] Lyndon Johnson had declared war on drugs, to be followed by Richard Nixon declaring War on Drugs in 1969, Ronald Reagan declaring War on Drugs in 1982, and George Bush declaring War on Drugs in 1989.[4]”
“And if you were around in the 20’s you would have said, “And they could end all this tomorrow by decriminalizing alcohol.”
And he would be correct.
Prohibition was the catalyst and the vehicle for taking common street punks and organizing them into sophisticated criminal organizations that exist to this day.
History is repeating itself.
This problem has been around for decades.
I remember back in 80’s in college sociology class.
I had discussion with very honest professor.
His explanation of problem.
Citizens in depressed areas tolerate crime, due to distrust of police and government.
Crime,drugs provide a form of income for those that cannot or will not get full time job.
It also provides for underground economy.
In addition in most of these communities people who are being victimized by gangs have a family member in gangs also.
Therefore if they rat out one gang retaliation comes in form of dead family member.
This situtaion perpetuates problem.
When I asked what could be done.
He answer was that the only way to end violence was to eliminate all gangs in said area.
Eliminate as in kill, no trials.
Further discussion with professor, he said that politicians and police had no incentive to end problem.
Politicians because they can always run on tougher anti gang platform.
Police because if they eliminate threats to community,they are not needed.
Pretty grim assessment of situation, but one I have never forgotten.
Careful there Seruzawa, when you start twitching and can’t stand still, when your eyes wander all over the place, when you develop a nervous sound in your voice and when you become spontaneously hostile for no apparent reason, it may be too late for you to get off of drugs.
So, legalizing alcohol did NOT get rid of organized crime. But legalizing drugs will. Uh-huh.
Before 1970, most drugs were legal. The DEA didn't even come into existence until 1973!
Robertpaulson posted:
“Before 1970, most drugs were legal. The DEA didn’t even come into existence until 1973!”
Here is is again:
“From 1964 to 1970 in the United States, the number of state prisoners incarcerated for drug offenses more than doubled from 3,079 to 6,596 (it was 90,000 in 1989)[9], and the new concentration on enforcing victimless crimes caused the homicide rate to skyrocket. Between 1964 and 1970 the homicide rate doubled from 5 per 100,000 to 10 per 100,000, where it has remained, with minor fluctuations, until today.[2] Lyndon Johnson had declared war on drugs, to be followed by Richard Nixon declaring War on Drugs in 1969,”
I said, that didn't happen until the mid-70's. If the murder rate increased before then, it was for other reasons.
"Between 1964 and 1970 the homicide rate doubled from 5 per 100,000 to 10 per 100,000, where it has remained, with minor fluctuations, until today"
"Today" being 1989. Well, from 1989 to 2005, the homicide rate dropped back down to around 5 per 100,000. Go figure.
“Today” being 1989. Well, from 1989 to 2005, the homicide rate dropped back down to around 5 per 100,000. Go figure.”
What is also interesting is that we seem to be stuck at the 5/100,000 figure, when it was 1/100,000 back before WWI.
I don’t blame the people who are afraid to report crime.....didn’t Italians and the Irish in New York basically ho-hum crime so as not to anger the mob rulers?
What the hell is that supposed to mean? What “war on freedom” ?
The probation of drugs, "The war on drugs". Taking the rights of a person to live as they want. The only thing it does is create a black market aka. crime. If drugs were not illegal the there would not be fighting over turf to sell them. The war on freedom aka guns drugs and your income.
Wow. It took some shoehorning to get it in there, but thanks for my new tagline.
Powerful, still thinking about those statements. WOW..sounds as if he was right.
Thanks,
That is quite a compliment.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.