Posted on 03/29/2008 12:59:40 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
Who is Odinga? Odinga is Obama's cousin. Odinga and Obama are from the same Kenyan Luo tribe. Odinga supporters are the people that are burning Christians alive, trapped inside churches ... Most of Odinga's fanatical followers are radical islamists who have pushed for Islamic Sharia Law...
... In 2006, Obama took a trip to Kenya and voiced his support for his fellow tribesman and political ally, Odinga.
Obama also directly attacked the sitting Kenyan leadership (Kibaki) calling them 'corrupt'...
... Odinga is the cat that ran on the socialist democrat ticket in Kenya and lost to sitting president Kibaki.
... Odinga has now made a deal for support with Muslim fundamentalists. A photograph copy of a Memorandum of Understanding, dated and signed on August 29, 2007, between Raila Odinga and Sheikh Abdullah Abi, chiarman of the National Muslim Leaders Forum of Kenya...
http://eakenya.org/newsevents/article.htm?id=8
Here is a summary on the agreement which was signed:
* It pledges the support of Kenyan Moslems for Raila's election. In return, as President of Kenya, Raila, agrees to 14 actions, listed a) through n) on page 2.
* Within 6 months rewrite the Constitution of Kenya to recognize Sharia as the only true law sanctioned by the Holy Quran for Muslim declared regions...
(Excerpt) Read more at sodahead.com ...
He’s not asking questions he’s making staements that have no basis in fact:
See profile and Assyrians and any other statements made.
Ha: Yes I say Ha on that one it’s crap. It negates so much of European history. It simplifies the European Renaissance to such a tremendous degree. It igonores the Irish that don’t fit into the anti-arab (pre-muslim I must say) tirade. It ignores the Romans and mentions the greeks in an offahnd manner while placing the origin of our civilisation on the figgin Assyrians.
hahahahahahahaha. It so fuc^&in shoddy you gotta laugh.
OK. I can understand that. Some people would say we have a socialist running as a democrat in this election.
According to Wiki: Raila Odinga was born in Maseno, Kisumu District, Nyanza Province on January 7, 1945. He received a scholarship that in 1965 sent him to the Technical University, Magdeburg (now a part of Otto von Guericke University of Magdeburg) in East Germany. In 1970, he graduated with a degree in Mechanical Engineering.
Now, it seems odd to this American that Odinga would receive his education from a Soviet bloc nation. What's your take on that?
Odinga is also described as a member of LIC.
The Liberal International Constitution (2005) gives its purposes as "to win general acceptance of Liberal principles which are international in their nature throughout the world, and to foster the growth of a free society based on personal liberty, personal responsibility and social justice, and to provide the means of co-operation and interchange of information between the member organisations, and between men and women of all countries who accept these principles." The principles that unite member parties from Africa, the Americas, Asia and Europe are; respect for human rights, free and fair elections and multiparty-democracy, social justice, tolerance, social market economics, free trade, environmental sustainability and a strong sense of international solidarity. The aims of Liberal International are also set out in a series of seven manifestos, written between 1946 and 1997 and are furthered by a variety of bodies including a near yearly conference for liberal parties and individuals from around the world.
Americans have a problem with adopting "multi-national" constitutions.
What benefit has Mr. Odinga been to the people of Kenya?
Nothing you have said here is important enough to warrant your hostile, public display.
The Liberal International Constitution (2005) gives its purposes as “to win general acceptance of Liberal principles which are international in their nature throughout the world, and to foster the growth of a free society based on personal liberty, personal responsibility and social justice, and to provide the means of co-operation and interchange of information between the member organisations, and between men and women of all countries who accept these principles.” The principles that unite member parties from Africa, the Americas, Asia and Europe are; respect for human rights, free and fair elections and multiparty-democracy, social justice, tolerance, social market economics, free trade, environmental sustainability and a strong sense of international solidarity. The aims of Liberal International are also set out in a series of seven manifestos, written between 1946 and 1997 and are furthered by a variety of bodies including a near yearly conference for liberal parties and individuals from around the world.
That’s Canada for ya
Could you elaborate on this?
Why cause I called him on his crap. LOL I’d have been banned years ago. If he, so high and mighty, and you, claim your right to speak your mind, and yet deny mine.....
I’ll call it like I see it. Wait a minute I’ll drag that old crappy honors degree I have in History outa my ass.
Yep I met a ton of people who liked to rewrite a bit here and there. People becuase of PC suddenly claimed all mathematics came out of Africa. Wait a minute...what proof do you have.....
“We don’t need proof we said it, it is so.”
I read crap like that, and I know why liberal history disgusts me so. You actually question what I have against Christians, rather than look at the factual basis of his less than reliable claims.
Yeah hostile....yeah...I’d rather say called out on the bulls^&^t.
I think I’d rather call you a “gravedigger” and be done with you.
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You have just tol me everything I need to know about you.
Blaming the British. Blaming whitey.
According to Wiki: Following the election, held on December 27, [2007]the electoral commission in controversial circumstances declared Kibaki the winner on December 30, 2007, despite widespread evidence of electoral malpractices; placing him ahead of Odinga by about 232,000 votes. Odinga accused Kibaki of fraud, and widespread violence broke out in the country.[17] Following 2 months of unrest, a deal brokered by former UN Secretary General Kofi Annan between Kibaki and Odinga resulted in power-sharing and the creation of the post of Prime Minister. Odinga would become the second prime minister of Kenya since independence, after the Late president Jomo Kenyatta.
Is this date correct? What role did Obama play?
According to this website, Obama has been in Kenya three times
http://www.freedomsenemies.com/_Obama/ObamaAfrica.htm
1987. Obama travels to Kenya for the first time.
1992. Obama travels to Kenya for the second time.
2006. Obama travels to Kenya for the third time on a US tax-payer funded visit.
Wiki: "Senator Barack Hussein Obama supported his older half-brother Abongo Obama, a militant muslim leader of the Luo tribe of Barack Obama's family and campaigned for his uncle, Raila Odinga during his 2006 visit to Kenya, where the famous picture of Barack in a turbin was taken from."
The Muslim Accomplishments That Weren’t
By Jamie Glazov
FrontPageMagazine.com | Wednesday, February 27, 2008
Frontpage Interview’s guest today is Peter BetBasoo, co-founder and director of the Assyrian International News Agency (www.aina.org). He was born in Baghdad in 1963 and emigrated to the U.S. in 1974. He obtained a B.S. in Geology at the University of Illinois Chicago (1980-1985) and a minor in Philosophy. In 2002, he worked in the State Department’s Future of Iraq Project, in the Water, Agriculture and Environment group. In 2007, he authored the report, Incipient Genocide: The Ethnic Cleansing of the Assyrians of Iraq.
FP: Peter BetBasoo, welcome to Frontpage Interview.
BetBasoo: Thank you very much, Jamie, I am honored to be here.
FP: Tell us your thoughts on Muslim claims of accomplishments, revisionism and the expropriation of cultures and ideas.
BetBasoo: Let me preface my remarks by saying that I do not claim that Muslims have made no accomplishments. Individual Muslims have been successful in the full range of the human scientific and artistic endeavor. But a closer examination of these successes reveals that they came about because these individuals stepped outside of the Muslim realm. For example, today Muslim scientists and scholars are trained in the West. I claim that Islam is not conducive to the pursuit of rational inquiry, and when Islam asserts itself, it borrows, co-opts and ultimately, when time has passed and memory forgotten, claims that these borrowed and co-opted things were originated by Muslims, not by the native cultures that preceded the Muslims.
If something cannot be so expropriated, it is often destroyed. The most recent example was the Taliban’s destruction of the 2500 year-old Buddhist statues in Afghanistan . In Iran , the UNESCO world heritage sites, Pasargadae and Persepolis , are threatened by the construction of the Sivand dam, and the Mullahs simply don’t care, though they claim the water line will be below these cities, which date back to 560 B.C..
In Iraq , history text books teach that the Sumerians, Assyrians, Babylonians were in fact Arabs — never mind that these civilizationsexisted a good 5600 years before Arabs/Muslims came into Mesopotamia .
In the Middle East it is nearly impossible to separate Islam from Arabs, they are two sides of the same coin. Hence, if you are an Arab, you must surely be a Muslim, and your accomplishments as well. If you are not a Muslim, then you need to be.
In India , over 3500 Hindu temples have been occupied and converted to Mosques, the most famous being the Taj Mahal. In Kosovo, under the auspices of the UN “peace” keeping force, over 600 Serbian churches and monasteries have been occupied or destroyed by the Muslim Kosovars. Kosovo is the most important religious center for the Serbians.
FP: So how about Muslim claims of accomplishment that aren’t real?
BetBasoo: Muslims claim many, many accomplishments we know they had nothing to do with. Arabic numerals? From India . The concept of zero? From Babylonia . Parabolic arches? From Assyria . The much ballyhooed claim of translating the Greek corpus of knowledge into Arabic? It was the Christian Assyrians, who first translated to Syriac, then to Arabic. The first University? Not Al-Azhar in Cairo (988 A.D.), but the School of Nisibis of the Church of the East (350 A.D.), which had three departments: Theology, Philosophy and Medicine. Al-Azhar only teaches Theology.
Speaking of medicine, Muslims will claim that medicine during the Golden Age of Islam, the Abbasid period, was the most advanced in the world. That is correct. But what they don’t say is that the medical practitioners were exclusively Christians. The most famous medical family, the Bakhtishu family, Assyrians of the Church of the East, produced seven generations of doctors, who were the official physicians to the Caliphs of Baghdad for nearly 200 years.
There are many more examples, but I think these are enough to make the point.
FP: Why, in your view, does Islam fail in producing scholars and thinkers?
BetBasoo: It is a bold assertion to say that Islam fails in producing thinkers. Yet one is lead to this conclusion by a historical examination of Islamic civilizations. The putative “Golden Age of Islam”, the Abbasid period, has been shown to be not the product of Muslims, but of their Christian subjects. In his book How Greek Science Passed to the Arabs, O’Leary’s lists 22 scholars and translators during the Golden Age of Islam; 20 were Christians, 1 was a Persian, and 1 was a Muslim. This covers about a 250 year period. This “Golden Age”, incidentally, came to an end after the Caliphs had forcefully converted enough Christians to Muslims (through the Jizya) that the Christian numbers fell below the critical threshold needed for sustaining the intellectual enterprise.
Given that this intellectual enterprise during the Abbasid period was the product of Christians, we ask the question: has there ever been an Islamic golden age? There was none during the rule of the Mamluks, who overthrew the Abbasids. Can we say the Ottomans, who followed the Mamluks, ever had a golden age?
In his book Religion of Peace, Robert Spencer has offered a penetrating and incisive analysis of why Islam fails to produce thinkers. His explanation is theological and theoretical. I will summarize it now and then give my own complimentary explanation, which is practical.
According to Robert Spencer, the Muslim god, Allah, is capricious. He is not subject to any laws and can, in fact, change laws arbitrarily without restraint. Quoting the Pope, Spencer says:
“for Muslim teaching, God is absolutely transcendent. His will is not bound up with any of our categories, even that of rationality.”
Spencer continues:
“the Pope was not so much saying that in the Islamic view Allah would command his people to do evil, but that he might change the content of the concepts of good and evil. In other words, Allah would always enjoin “justice and kindness,” but what constitutes “justice and kindness,” just as what constitutes “innocent blood,” might change.”
And
“He [Allah] was thus not bound to govern the universe according to consistent and observable laws. ‘He cannot be questioned concerning what He does’” (Qur’an 21:23 ).
And
“Accordingly, there was no point to observing the workings of the physical world; there was no reason to expect that any pattern to its workings would be consistent, or even discernable. If Allah could not be counted on to be consistent, why waste time observing the order of things? It could change tomorrow. Stanley Jaki, a Catholic priest and physicist, explains that it was al-Ghazali, the philosopher that the authors of the Open Letter recommend to the Pope, who ‘denounced natural laws, the very objective of science, as a blasphemous constraint upon the free will of Allah.’ He adds that ‘Muslim mystics decried the notion of scientific law (as formulated by Aristotle) as blasphemous and irrational, depriving as it does the Creator of his freedom.’ Social scientist Rodney Stark adds that ‘it would seem that Islam has a conception of God appropriate to underwrite the rise of science. Not so. Allah is not presented as a lawful creator but is conceived of as an extremely active God who intrudes in the world as he deems it appropriate. This prompted the formation of a major theological bloc within Islam that condemns all efforts to formulate natural laws as blasphemy in that they deny Allah’s freedom to act.’”
Thus there is no incentive for Muslims to pursue rational inquiry, since any results obtained can be invalidated by Allah at his whim.
FP: And Christianity?
BetBasoo: In contrast, Christianity derives from the Bible the notion that God works and is subject to natural and predictable laws, which a rational inquiry into would be a fruitful undertaking. This notion is the fundamental basis of the scientific method, which is a Christian invention.
That is the theological/theoretical explanation of Islam’s failure to produce thinkers. There is a practical one as well. Allow me to illustrate it by contrast.
There are two aspects of Christianity that every Christian must contend with. The first is the Trinity, the second is the literary style of the Bible.
In the Trinity there is a Mystery that must be understood. Just exactly who is the Father? Who is the Son? What is the Holy Spirit? How do these relate? How does the Holy Spirit interact with the corporeal? Where does it reside? In the heart? the liver? the brain? Does it exist separate from the human nature in the body (hence the Diophysites — Roman Catholics, Protestants, Assyrian Church of the East) or is it inseparably fused and intertwined with the human nature in the body (hence the Monophysites — the Eastern Orthodox Churches)?
The New Testament is written in parables. Seldom is the point of the story expressed directly. The reader is asked to read a parable and figure out what it means. Reading the New Testament requires analysis, it engages the critical thought processes of interpretation and deduction.
The effort at understanding the Mystery of the Trinity and of unraveling the meaning of parables exercises the mind and engages the Christian not only on a spiritual level, but an intellectual level as well. To wit, it teaches a Christian to think.
In contrast, the Koran is written in a prescriptive style. There are no parables. The Muslim is summarily told what to do, most of the time without explanation. The Muslim needs to read just enough to get the prescription. It’s like the directions on your drug prescription: take two pills every eight hours. Period. No further explanation.
Thus on a practical level, the act of exercising these religions produces two different thought processes. Christianity asks the believer to think and analyze, to interpret and deduce. Islam asks the believer to obey blindly and without question. Indeed, the Koran says “...follow not that of which you have not the knowledge” (Children of Israel, 17.36).
FP: Peter BetBasoo, thank you for joining Frontpage Interview.
BetBasoo: Thank you for having me.
Oh Fred! You just HAD to go and do that, didn’t ‘ya! ;^)
Thanks a so much.
marked to read later
...
Oh wow an interview. Do you even understand how history works Fred...no I don’t think you do.
I’d require primary sources Fred, not some guy taling out his ass.
Jeez I’d always expected better from FR. Again crap.
Site proper historical events Fred, like how the Assyrians were responsible for the Renaissance, completely igonoring any and all European influence.
Concept of Zero Fred...I’d look at . yes . being the 0 we use today. Yes, Fred . is not O do you get that...it’s pretty easy.
and..
“Speaking of medicine, Muslims will claim that medicine during the Golden Age of Islam, the Abbasid period, was the most advanced in the world. That is correct. But what they don’t say is that the medical practitioners were exclusively Christians. The most famous medical family, the Bakhtishu family, Assyrians of the Church of the East, produced seven generations of doctors, who were the official physicians to the Caliphs of Baghdad for nearly 200 years.”
What does that even prove. Christians have been around for forever in the Islamic world . They contributed to the culture. Following your logic we would have to disown Einstein because he was a Jew in our Christian country.
Again garbage and crap.
You completely zap your credibility with that statement. Even Obama doesn't deny that he attended a Muslim school in Indonesia. But your repeated assertion that you know Kenya and no one else should talk about it turns around now. You aren't from Indonesia so you don't know squat about that. Right?
You suggested I should remove that letter written by Peter BetBasoo from my bio page.
In response, I posted an interview from FrontpageMagazine with Peter BetBasoo. Other than that, the Assyrians have nothing to do with the subject of this thread.
And now that I have read through some of your previous postings in various forums, I’m totally convinced you need to watch your language, pay more attention to grammar and spelling, and keep taking your medication.
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