Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Faulty rules blamed for gun's firing (airline pilot's accidental discharge)
Washington Times ^ | March 28, 2008 | Audrey Hudson

Posted on 03/28/2008 12:28:59 PM PDT by neverdem

Inadequate handgun rules designed by Department of Homeland Security officials are to blame for last weekend's accidental discharge of a pistol by a commercial pilot during landing preparations, a pilots association said yesterday.

"The pilot has to take his gun off and lock it up before he leaves the cockpit, so he was trying to secure the gun in preparation for landing, while he was trying to fly the airplane, too," said David Mackett, president of the Airline Pilots Security Alliance. "In the process of doing that, the padlock that is required to be inserted into the holster pulled the trigger and caused the gun to discharge."

The unnamed US Airways pilot, who was landing at Charlotte/Douglas (N.C.) International Airport, has been placed on leave by the airline since the incident.

This was the first report of a pilot's gun being discharged on a plane.

APSA, an organization of pilots...

--snip--

"We complained to DHS two years ago that this was an unsafe rule," Mr. Mackett said.

Rather than carry the weapon on their person at all times, pilots must lock it up before opening the cockpit door, meaning pilots handle the gun as many as 10 times per flight, the association estimates.

Pilots who have completed training to become federal flight deck officers (FFDOs) and carry weapons must use a holster used primarily as a home child-safety lock. A padlock is inserted through the holster and trigger guard, but, if inserted backward, it can trigger the gun, pilots say.

"It's a completely unsafe system unless it's used in a static environment — in a bedroom with good light. But to try to balance a gun on your lap and padlock it while flying an airplane 300 miles an hour, sometimes in the dark, is not secure," Mr. Mackett said....

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: armedpilots; banglist; dhs; ffdo; usairways
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-113 next last
To: Eaker

Yea, but it was a polymer pistol. /sarcasm


61 posted on 03/28/2008 2:47:01 PM PDT by Cobra64 (www.BulletBras.net)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: TalonDJ
Those lights are not all that bright. There is still stuff going on in the cockpit to distract him even if his hands are not on the controls.

They're bright enough to read maps.

There's also another guy to handle the airplane while he's fooling around with his pistol.

In the cockpit of an aircraft there is no safe direction.

Sure there is. You can always point it to the side of the airplane, under the side cockpit windows. There's no vital electronics or cables. One little hole won't cause the airplane to crash or depressurize.

62 posted on 03/28/2008 2:47:56 PM PDT by Ol' Dan Tucker (After six years of George W. Bush I long for the honesty and sincerity of the Clinton Administration)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: ghostcat
"These trainers are baffled to learn of the holster lock and unlock procedures that I won’t disclose here."

From the posted pics, I'll take a guess...Four digit tumbler & a key required. He has to secure the lock while wearing the firearm and then remove from his person.

Does the holster come with it's own belt already threaded or does the pilot have to secure to his own while in the cockpit?

63 posted on 03/28/2008 2:52:19 PM PDT by Deaf Smith
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Cobra64
Yup.

Love it. And yes, it has a magazine instead of a clip.

Too bad, the technology doesn't allow the shooter to know if a round is chambered.

I always store my autos (have a Ruger MK11, too) with the chamber open. Even if a magazine is loaded. Not as easy when it is in the holster or when handling.

64 posted on 03/28/2008 2:54:05 PM PDT by dhs12345
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: Cobra64
Have a revolver (GP100) with a transfer bar.

And yes, I always treat my Hi-Power and MKII differently than my GP100.

Always makes storage interesting because pistol boxes and bags are not big enough — always store both with the slide/chamber open.

Not that easy in a holster, either.

65 posted on 03/28/2008 3:02:58 PM PDT by dhs12345
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Neverdem,

Michael Bane is the real deal, been around for ever. Helped start ISPCA (or what ever thos e initials are) and NSSF and IDPA and a bunch of other stuff.

He has two shows on the outdoor channle (Shooting Gallery and Cowboys)

Here is a link to his main site called Downrange TV http://www.downrange.tv/ LOTS of good info.


66 posted on 03/28/2008 3:09:32 PM PDT by Hazcat (We won an immigration BATTLE, the WAR is not over. Be ever vigilant.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: wastedyears

Check post 6... a padlock thru the trigger guard mustve been designed by DiFi...


67 posted on 03/28/2008 3:17:15 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Choose Liberty over slavery... the gulag awaits ANY compromise with evil...LiveFReeOr Die...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: NonValueAdded

With reinforced doors, the only time a pilot would need a firearm is when the cockpit door is open... Yet that is the only time he cannot have a firearm.

Brilliant plan, TSA.

There is an easy way to spot pilots who are part of the weapons program. I won’t say, but it is pretty obvious and could make pilots targets inside airports.


68 posted on 03/28/2008 3:18:24 PM PDT by MediaMole
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
Rather than carry the weapon on their person at all times, pilots must lock it up before opening the cockpit door, meaning pilots handle the gun as many as 10 times per flight, the association estimates.

The brainiacs in the TSA strike again. This "safety" rule is beyond stupid. It is criminal negligence and an accident waiting to happen.

TSA never wanted to arm the pilots in the first place. Now they'll want to disarm them again in the interest of "safety". It's for the children, you know!

69 posted on 03/28/2008 3:22:18 PM PDT by Gritty (Never call an unarmed man 'security'. Call him 'run-like-hell-when-shooting-starts'."-LTC D Grossman)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SiVisPacemParaBellum
Nothing faulty about the rule that says 'keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire'.

Read the story, and check the pic in comment# 6.

70 posted on 03/28/2008 3:27:12 PM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: PowderMonkey

Excellent point. I wonder if there’s a policy on that, and if he was following it. They wouldn’t urge pilots to keep one in the chamber would they?


71 posted on 03/28/2008 3:28:02 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (New Europe, John Benedict Arnold McCain's bridge to 07/03/1776. Not even our past is safe.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: dhs12345
From the factory, a Browning Hi Power or a clone of one, has a magazine disconnect to prevent pulling the trigger and dropping the hammer when the magazine is removed, whether or not there is a cartridge in the chamber.

A lot of people remove the magazine disconnect to improve the trigger pull and for other reasons. A "previously owned" Hi Power may have had that done.

Some say it is an advantage to be able to remove the magazine, leave a cartridge in the chamber, and have the firearm be unfireable. Some say it is not an advantage.

72 posted on 03/28/2008 3:38:01 PM PDT by KrisKrinkle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Hazcat

Thanks for the link.


73 posted on 03/28/2008 3:40:28 PM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: dhs12345
I always store my autos (have a Ruger MK11, too)

I didn't know Ruger made an MK11. Is that the next generation after the 10 ?

74 posted on 03/28/2008 3:47:52 PM PDT by Cobra64 (www.BulletBras.net)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: Ol' Dan Tucker

To be considered a ‘safe direction’ it can’t be one square foot.


75 posted on 03/28/2008 3:49:01 PM PDT by TalonDJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: Eaker
I wonder where all of the brain surgeons on the previous thread who swore that it HAD TO BE GLOCK are right about now?

Which thread wass that? I did think of a Glock. I knew a guy who said ne shot himself with a Glock trying to get it out of his pocket. It got snagged.

76 posted on 03/28/2008 3:50:25 PM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: KrisKrinkle
Thanks!

Have never tried it. May try it just to be sure. I believe mine may have been modified even though I bought it “new” from a local, brand name, sporting goods store.

It has a very light trigger pull when compared to my friends hi-power. Takes some getting used to. Was going to have a gun smith look at it. Might have been modified as you mention.

Bottom line: I won't count on it. Just curious.

Rule #1: always treat a firearm as if it is loaded.

77 posted on 03/28/2008 3:54:52 PM PDT by dhs12345
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: TalonDJ
To be considered a ‘safe direction’ it can’t be one square foot.

Okay. Where in the cockpit should he be pointing his (loaded) pistol when holstering and locking it?

"The pilot has to take his gun off and lock it up before he leaves the cockpit, so he was trying to secure the gun in preparation for landing, while he was trying to fly the airplane, too," said David Mackett, president of the Airline Pilots Security Alliance. "In the process of doing that, the padlock that is required to be inserted into the holster pulled the trigger and caused the gun to discharge."

...

"It's a completely unsafe system unless it's used in a static environment — in a bedroom with good light. But to try to balance a gun on your lap and padlock it while flying an airplane 300 miles an hour, sometimes in the dark, is not secure," Mr. Mackett said....

I wonder what the other guy was doing when this one was flying the airplane at 300 mph, down to a landing, in the dark, while trying to holster his (loaded) weapon and put the lock on it? (poor CRM)

78 posted on 03/28/2008 4:01:25 PM PDT by Ol' Dan Tucker (After six years of George W. Bush I long for the honesty and sincerity of the Clinton Administration)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: TalonDJ
FWIW: DEA Agent Shoots Hisself
79 posted on 03/28/2008 4:03:01 PM PDT by Ol' Dan Tucker (After six years of George W. Bush I long for the honesty and sincerity of the Clinton Administration)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: Cobra64
LOL.

Good little target pistol. Mine has the bull barrel. My wife loves it. Most accurate hand gun I have at short range. Tends to jam these days. Need to take it to a gun smith.

BTW, don't take what I am saying for granted. At lot of people are ignorant of the possibility of semi-auto being loaded when the clip is removed.

A guy next to me at a range accidentally discharged his auto for this very reason. The good news is that he had the barrel pointed in a safe direction. Makes me a bit of a zealot wrt this issue.

80 posted on 03/28/2008 4:04:36 PM PDT by dhs12345
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-113 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson