Thank you for that.
My statement wasn't really based on a faulty assumption because I fully understand the theological argument. And I don't disagree with you, except at the margins.
But they're big margins.
There have been a lot of people born on this planet who never had the opportunity to read the scripture, either before Jesus and even after. So you can't test their faith on something they never had a chance to believe.
You can take a tough approach and say they all go to hell. Or you can say that some were really good people who never even had the opportunity to have faith in the messiah or Jesus.
But that really opens the door theologically. If you can achieve salvation without ever even hearing of the concept of the plan of salvation, what's the point of the plan?
I can't answer these questions, and so far, nobody else has answered them to my satisfaction, either.
In the overall picture, it probably shouldn't matter to me. I know what I know. I believe what I believe. God can figure the rest of the stuff out.
Absolutely agree with you on this point, although salvation is by faith, not by having read scripture.
So you can't test their faith on something they never had a chance to believe.
Nope, no way I can test their faith, but I believe that is within God's abilities...and it's within His authority as well.
You can take a tough approach and say they all go to hell.
I've seen that tack taken, but I disagree with it...it's God's job to know where everyone will go, not mine. We do have the mandate to go into all the world and make disciples, so we have our marching orders, but ultimately, it's God who is the judge.
Or you can say that some were really good people who never even had the opportunity to have faith in the messiah or Jesus. But that really opens the door theologically. If you can achieve salvation without ever even hearing of the concept of the plan of salvation, what's the point of the plan?
Salvation isn't based upon one's goodness...none of us are "good" in God's eyes. More in a sec...
I can't answer these questions, and so far, nobody else has answered them to my satisfaction, either.
I believe it's a very complex topic and a message board isn't an easy format to discuss it, but I'll give my best shot and try to keep it fairly short (brevity not being one of my strong suits in any case).
1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness." Romans 4:1-3
9 Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. 10 How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. Romans 4:9-10
Prior to Jesus, even prior to the law God counted Abraham righteous by faith...and again, this is prior to the cross. Of course the real sticking point is what about those people who never hear of Jesus? Well, Abraham never heard of Jesus, but he trusted God. And scripture has more to say as well...
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Romans 1:18-21
Scripture says God has revealed himself adequately for man to respond. So although one hasn't heard the gospel God has provided a witness of Himself through His creation. More detail can be found in the next chapter...
12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. Romans 2:12-16
This passage seems to pretty clearly indicate God will judge one's response to God by Christ Jesus, and through Abraham we have learned that is by faith. Here's one more passage on the same topic...
4 By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks. Hebrews 11:4
8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God. Hebrews 11:8-10
We're told Able was justified by faith and the same with Abraham.
As to your question of why the crucifixion...the law demanded a price and Jesus paid it. Without that we would not be saved...so the faith Abraham placed in God for salvation was made possible and fulfilled in Jesus.
In the overall picture, it probably shouldn't matter to me. I know what I know. I believe what I believe. God can figure the rest of the stuff out.
There are many areas that I approach in the same manner. On this topic, I think I have a general handle on it. I hope I have presented it adequately to convey my thoughts, and I apologize for the length. Blessings.