Murdered wife Helen...
Posted on 03/25/2008 11:15:40 AM PDT by Borges
John List, the devout Lutheran who killed his family, left the bodies in his New Jersey home and spent 18 years as a fugitive, has died at 82.
The state Department of Corrections said that List died Friday in a Trenton hospital. He had been an inmate at Trenton State Prison since he was given five consecutive life sentences in 1990.
List, an accountant and one-time Sunday school teacher, lived in Denver for years after shooting his wife, mother and three teenage children, returning to his previous occupation under an alias and marrying a woman he met at a church picnic. By the time of his arrest, after "America's Most Wanted" aired a segment on the crime, he was living in Richmond, Va., with his second wife.
In a five-page letter left for his pastor, List said he wanted to keep his family close to God. He also covered his tracks, telling his children's schools the family was going to be out of town. The bodies, laid out in the Victorian mansion he owned in Westfield, were not found for a month.
Yes, we are need in salvation. Yes, man has a sinful nature but it was not that way from the beginning.
Genesis 1:31 - And God saw all the things that he had made, and they were very good. And the evening and morning were the sixth day.
I've already explained how they are contradictory in my previous post.
I don’t believe God observes ua at all, why would He?
Because He loves us and also the He interacts with his creation all of the time. How would that be possible unless he observed what He was interacting with?
Please explain how we can make a free will choice other than the one God knows we will make?
God's omnipotence doesn't infringe on my Free Will. It can't, otherwise it wouldn't be Free Will.
Amen.
Murdered wife Helen...
Murdered sons John Jr. and Fred List...
Yes, and God planned for you to procreate at that time, with that female, and to have the child you had, with that childs future planned, etc. Since God cannot be wrong, you could not have done otherwise, could you?
I have no idea what God’s plan is, and I have no need to know. I am just thankful daily, that He made me the way I am and for all that I have. I don’t have a name for it, but we can call it His plan for salvation if you like.
As I have also said earlier, why all the suffering?
Since we both agree there is only one God, you probably don’t need to call Him ‘my’ God.
I disagree. I believe morality does evolve.
So good, you answered your own question, although I would disagree that we all have a sinful nature. We have the nature that God gave us.
I understand what is described in books, but I do not really know what it was like in the beginning.
Perhaps, you really do not have free will, and that is why you do not really make any choices, you act accordingly. As God is all-powerful, surely He could make it so we all believe we have free will, couldn’t He?
All the little devils in Hell have their pitchforks ready...John List is toast!
That’s what I believe...
So God is now lying to us? You are all over the place with your arguments.
I never said God was lying to us. Where did you come up with that?
Previous Post:
As God is all-powerful, surely He could make it so we all believe we have free will, couldn’t He?
You are implying that God is lying to us by making us believe something that isn't true.
No, I’m implying that this is the way God has designed us, in order for us to make laws and form societies. Where do you get the lying part from?
Laws require free will on man's part to obey. You are stating that God could have made us believe (lying) that man has free will so that we would have laws and society. If there is no free will then there would be no need of laws and society to ensure justice.
Your argument doesn't hold water.
I do not believe they require free will, they require a belief in free will.
Designing humans to believe is not the same thing as lying to them.
We need laws, because that is the way God made us.
It doesn’t matter if it does not hold water with you. I’m not trying to convince you of anything. I just ask questions and try to explain myself when responding.
With Free Will, exactly.
It would be accurate if you kept it in context and referenced my first sentence.
As I said, with the belief we have free will.
*chuckle*
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