Posted on 03/25/2008 4:36:31 AM PDT by Renfield
March 23, 2008: A year ago, the U.S. Army was only getting about a third of its requests for Predator missions filled. The surge campaign was under way, and the new Secretary of Defense got involved with the growing number of complaints from army officers about the Predator shortage. The air force had about a hundred Predators, but only a dozen were in Iraq. Questions were asked.
The air force said it did not have enough Predators, and that there was also a shortage of Predator operators. A typical Predator crew consists of an pilot and a sensor operator. Because the Predator stays in the air for so long, more than one crew is often used for each sortie. Crew shortages sometimes result in Predators coming down before their fuel is used up. The air force insists that existing pilots (of manned aircraft) be trained as Predator operators. The army uses NCOs trained specifically for UAV operation. The army has no operator shortage.
Ever since World War II, there's been a controversy over whether all pilots (most of whom are highly trained warriors, not leaders, which is what officers are supposed to be) must be officers. At the start of World War II, the army air force (there was no separate air force yet) had enlisted pilots, as did the navy. These men were NCOs ("flying sergeants") selected for their flying potential and trained to be pilots. Not leaders of pilots, but professional pilots of fighters, bombers and whatnot. Officers trained as pilots would also fly, but in addition they would provide the leadership for the sergeant pilots in the air and on the ground. As the Army Air Corps changed into the mighty Army Air Force (with 2.4 million personnel, and 80,000 aircraft, at its peak), its capable and persuasive commander (General Hap Arnold), insisted that all pilots be officers. Actually, he wanted them all to be college graduates as well, until it was pointed out that the pool of college graduates was too small to provide the 200,000 pilots the Army Air Force eventually trained. But Arnold forced the issue on only officers being pilots, and the navy had to go along to remain competitive in recruiting.
Because of Iraq and Afghanistan, the army has also increased UAV operator training, and actually has far more UAVs than the air force. But most of the army UAVs are micro (under ten pounds) models, used by combat units (companies and battalion size units). These UAVs are designed to be very simple to use, requiring little formal training. Brigades and divisions use larger, but smaller than Predator, models. Most army UAV operators are not, like air force ones, pilots.
The Secretary of Defense ordered the air force to get more Predators to Iraq, and there are about two dozen there now. To deal with the UAV operator shortage, the air force has been recalling Predator pilots who have returned to their regular flying jobs. Until recently, being a Predator operator was a temporary (three year) assignment. Now, the air force is making it a career option, but it will take several years before they have enough career UAV pilots. The army complains that the air force is not operating like there's a war on, while the army is. While the air force complains that their UAV operators are working twelve hour shifts, six days a week, the army points out that the Predator operators are stationed in the U.S. (and control the UAVs via a satellite link). Air force personnel in Iraq (ground crews for the Predators) serve six month tours. Meanwhile, soldiers serve 15 month tours in Iraq, work 12 hour shifts, and get shot at a lot.
The army is buying a smaller version of the Predator (the Warrior) [PHOTO] and will be using NCOs and warrant officers as operators. The army is taking advantage of the fact that a UAV operator can become proficient practicing with the kind of flight simulator software you can buy in a game store. The air force does not agree with this approach, and fears unfavorable comparisons to their more complex and expensive approach to obtaining UAV operators. A lot of the bad blood between the army and air force comes down to how each service understands wars, and how they are fought. The air force has always been into new technologies, and new ways of fighting wars. The army is more about getting down and dirty and just getting the job done. The Secretary of Defense is siding with the army, and is telling the air force to get off their butts and get more Predators into the air, or else.
Props to your late Marine nephew, sir.
A buddy from work died in his Apache in Iraq in ‘05, another’s currently in NE Afghanistan, wearing lotsa kevlar, and my Nat’l Guard (nut) daughter’s trying to line up a years’ deployed “sabbatical” from her studies, in Iraq, she hopes, starting this fall.
Thank you.
That’s why the Marines train their fliers ... as ground officers FIRST.
Army chopper and recon pilots are Army first - then fliers.
These young people today in the services are America’s best.If I were to pick a generation as the next Greatest Generation, it would be for these warriors.
Sorry, I wouldn't know. I've never played a game of golf in my life.
And I'm an officer.
:-)
“Someone above your post (usmcobra) mentioned the officers were sleeping in the foxholes because that’s where their men were sleeping. THAT is why I have absolute respect for Marine leaders.”
And that is also why I would classify them as leaders, which to me is a rank above officer.
I think they do. I am always having to play through.
The Air Force seems to be just into turf battles, a long history here.
The drone situation seems very much like the armed helicopter wars of the 50’s when the Zoomies were insisting the Army was incapable of flying and maintaining helicopters.
Also not dissimilar to the Air Force’s desire a number of years ago to do away with the Wart Hog.
If it ain’t sexy enough for the Zoomies it shouldn’t exist, especially in the hands of someone else.
my brother was in the air farce...when my carrier pulled into norfolk after a deployment, he met me at the dock, and i brought him on board for a tour...all he kept saying was “ man, i could never work under these conditions”...what a wimp, typical air farce puke...navair, baby!!!
They did remake it a couple of years ago...and butchered it.
There was some degree of pragmatism in this...because of the likelihood of a flyer being downed in enemy territory it makes sense for pilots to be given a commission or warrant in order that they be accorded a higher Geneva Convention Category as a POW. The odds of a Predator pilot being shot down in enemy territory are pretty small...not only is that a role well within the capabilities of the NCO corps, but makes a great argument for the restoration of the advanced Specialist ranks (i.e. SPC5-7).
That covers the B-17 (as an example) pilot, copilot, bombardier, and navigator. That still leaves the enlisted gunners, radio operator, and engineer swinging in the breeze...
I know that's the way it worked out for flight crews, but Geneva considerations were one of the reasons for granting pilots a warrant or commission...
Back to the Airforce argument:
There is/was even a pecking order in the Airforce. I had a brother in law that was a recon pilot in Vietnam. He and a few other FACs were in the Philipines for some jungle training. They were in the club when all of a sudden some siren goes off and everybody moved away from the bar. My brother in law and the othe FACs were ignorant about what was going on and asked the bartender. They were told that the B-52 drivers were back from a mission and were given status as to not to have to wade thru the other patrons @ the bar. Needless to say my brothe in law and his buddies didn’t leave their stools.
Whenever I had the misfortune to deal with the air force I expected to be disappointed and that outfit never let me down.
The main reason it shouldn’t is that most posters don’t know squat all about how flying units work, nor what the USAF is really doing. For example, the CSAF recently offered to put every Predator into CENTCOM - every single UAV.
By doing so, he drove home the cost of doing so - namely, you had to shut down the schoolhouse, etc. This provides a temporary surge, followed by a decline in capability. But the offer was on the table, and SECDEF has, to date, declined to take it. You can waive your arms and stomp your feet, but you cannot make some decisions without having ripple effects. Those concern the USAF, and offering everything drove them home to the joint staff.
There are also differences between flying small UAVs and larger UAVs. You generally don’t care if small ones crash. As they get larger and carry bigger payloads, you care more. Also, many UAVs were pushed early into operations. I don’t believe some of the flight restrictions are classified, but for general purposes I’ll refrain from mentioning them. Suffice it to say that, like the U2, the Predator does a great job - AND has some genuine restrictions in flight operations.
The article is intended to be fair, but like a lot of MSM articles, the writer didn’t understand enough to ask the right questions.
For example, the whole ‘officer’ thing is a red herring. I’m a WSO with 2500 hours in fighters. I’m an officer. Do they want me flying UAVs? Well, I think they ought to offer it to me (although I have a retirement date now, so too late!), but I’ll also grant they would still have to train me in Predator flight. We have ample officers - it is training people to fly Predators when the majority of your assets are in theater (in contrast to what this article says...again, it is a lack of competence on the writer’s part, not malice).
I’ve spent enough time working flight ops with the US Army to know almost no one in the Army understands the strengths or the weaknesses of flight operations.
Oh, and if Marines were sleeping in foxholes when there were hotels available, the Marines were stupid - you sleep better in a hotel. Better sleep means better decisions when airborne. I wouldn’t put much faith in anything Hack writes.
Hack doesn’t know the square root of squat about flying. He doesn’t know 1/10th of what he thinks he knows about other subjects.
well, here is a good air farce story...i was working the flight deck, and they put 2 air farce people in the back seat of our EA-6B, for a little cat shot and ride...when the pilot saluted the cat officer, the 2 navy guys up front put their heads back in the seat, like you are supposed to, while the 2 air farce guys in the back seats were leaning forward, just looking around...when they shot the plane off the deck, these guys heads snapped back in the seat so fastand hard, it was just hilarious.....
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